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I'm a bit saddened by the sneer at Aldebaran in the article: '“SoftBank may not have struggled as much if they bought a better robotics company” instead of Alde

by flor1s 9y ago

I'm a bit saddened by the sneer at Aldebaran in the article: '“SoftBank may not have struggled as much if they bought a better robotics company” instead of Aldebaran, Takahashi said.' To be a bit hyperbolic: Aldebaran (renamed as Softbank Robotics) may not have struggled as much if they got bought by a better holding company. Aldebaran was one of the first companies to commercially release a humanoid robot (NAO). I have one under my desk right now, it is an amazing combination of hardware and software engineering. You can program it using Python, C++ or a visual programming tool called Choregraphe. Novice users can write simple programs for the robot, however the robot is not very capable of doing more complicated tasks such as operating (physical) tools. It is however used as standard platform in the RoboCup (robot soccer) competition. The company is (was?) in the process of creating a human size robot called Romeo, which is being used by various research institutes in Europe and could be used for household tasks. I wonder what would have happened if Google bought Aldebaran instead of Softbank!

basejumping 9y ago
Boston Dynamics robots seem an order of magnitude further ahead than Aldebarans'. Aldebaran has these tools available because their business is selling these robots who can do tricks and are easy to program, while BD seem to push technology and make mobile robots useful. There's a mistake in the article, a Pepper robot is around 15k not 1.6k.
- flor1s 9y ago
  I'm not sure if the price in the article is wrong. NAO costs between 5k-15k, but Pepper uses much cheaper hardware and is sold at a loss so it might be possible to buy it for 1.6k. Like you mentioned, Boston Dynamics and Aldebaran have different goals. If Google however is interested in making a household robot then I think Aldebaran would have been more suitable for them. Pepper and NAO have actually been used in public places like hotels and shops, but would you imagine one of Boston Dynamics robots being used there?
  - basejumping 9y ago
    Well, Aldebaran sells the Pepper robot through it's partners. I know because the company where I work bought 2 Peppers with around 15k each. I've been told it's around the same price in Japan, the difference is that there you pay a small sum at the beginning but then you pay a monthly subscription.
    - flor1s 9y ago
      It seems like you are right, their business model had me fooled! The robot costs around 1,200,000 yen (roughly 10,900 dollars) for both the robot and the three year service contract.
    - chrischen 9y ago
      That's incredible. I've seen the robot everywhere in Japan and it's generally regarded as completely useless. It makes sense taht it's a subscription model then,
      - nihonde 9y ago
        When you're talking to someone at a SoftBank store and Pepper rolls up to rudely interrupt...it makes me laugh every time.
- ragebol 9y ago
  NAO is already used in real life [0] in a use-case I could never imaging: helping elderly people with fitness exercises. Apparently, they are selling like hot cakes to Dutch care homes so the human can keep an eye out on the people. [0] https://youtu.be/fSQ-V8ipKn0?t=3m28s https://youtu.be/fSQ-V8ipKn0?t=3m28s (in Dutch, sorry)
ragebol 9y ago
Since this year, Aldebaran/SoftBanks's Pepper is going to be used in RoboCup@Home as well, as a standard platform, besides Toyota's HSR.
- flor1s 9y ago
  I've been talking with some people in my lab about that, it seems like a really interesting competition. I'm really curious to see how Pepper will be performing!
  - ragebol 9y ago
    I'm also very curious, but from what I've heard, Pepper's manipulations capabilities are lacking. The challenges for Pepper focus more on Human-Robot interaction, which it is made for of course. The Open Platform robots and HSRs have to do tasks like store groceries and set+clean a table, which require much more manipulation skills
    - flor1s 9y ago
      Ah yes, I've had the same issue with NAO. One of the best ways to grab an object (water bottle or box) seems to be to do a "hug grasp".
annnnd 9y ago
> ... human size robot called Romeo ... could be used for household tasks. This seems like a very interesting choice of name for a household robot... :-)
dmix 9y ago
Reading this article, it seems like it may have been oversold when it came out. They claim there was a culture clash between the Japan/French offices which may have created a disconnected product strategy. I don't doubt it was an excellent robotics platform that has survived among niche markets, but the critique of the company regarding Pepper as a product is definitely justified. Would Google have even lanuched Pepper if they acquired the company? It seems that SB was in a rush to push out a humanoid product which probably gave them practical experience quickly with real use-cases. That is basically the opposite of Google's strategy where they only release sure-things with large markets. They don't seem to like experimenting in the marketplace the way Pepper seems to have done.

by flor1s 9y ago

basejumping 9y ago

Boston Dynamics robots seem an order of magnitude further ahead than Aldebarans'. Aldebaran has these tools available because their business is selling these robots who can do tricks and are easy to program, while BD seem to push technology and make mobile robots useful. There's a mistake in the article, a Pepper robot is around 15k not 1.6k.

flor1s 9y ago
I'm not sure if the price in the article is wrong. NAO costs between 5k-15k, but Pepper uses much cheaper hardware and is sold at a loss so it might be possible to buy it for 1.6k. Like you mentioned, Boston Dynamics and Aldebaran have different goals. If Google however is interested in making a household robot then I think Aldebaran would have been more suitable for them. Pepper and NAO have actually been used in public places like hotels and shops, but would you imagine one of Boston Dynamics robots being used there?
- basejumping 9y ago
  Well, Aldebaran sells the Pepper robot through it's partners. I know because the company where I work bought 2 Peppers with around 15k each. I've been told it's around the same price in Japan, the difference is that there you pay a small sum at the beginning but then you pay a monthly subscription.
  - flor1s 9y ago
    It seems like you are right, their business model had me fooled! The robot costs around 1,200,000 yen (roughly 10,900 dollars) for both the robot and the three year service contract.
  - chrischen 9y ago
    That's incredible. I've seen the robot everywhere in Japan and it's generally regarded as completely useless. It makes sense taht it's a subscription model then,
    - nihonde 9y ago
      When you're talking to someone at a SoftBank store and Pepper rolls up to rudely interrupt...it makes me laugh every time.
ragebol 9y ago
NAO is already used in real life [0] in a use-case I could never imaging: helping elderly people with fitness exercises. Apparently, they are selling like hot cakes to Dutch care homes so the human can keep an eye out on the people. [0] https://youtu.be/fSQ-V8ipKn0?t=3m28s https://youtu.be/fSQ-V8ipKn0?t=3m28s (in Dutch, sorry)

ragebol 9y ago

Since this year, Aldebaran/SoftBanks's Pepper is going to be used in RoboCup@Home as well, as a standard platform, besides Toyota's HSR.

flor1s 9y ago
I've been talking with some people in my lab about that, it seems like a really interesting competition. I'm really curious to see how Pepper will be performing!
- ragebol 9y ago
  I'm also very curious, but from what I've heard, Pepper's manipulations capabilities are lacking. The challenges for Pepper focus more on Human-Robot interaction, which it is made for of course. The Open Platform robots and HSRs have to do tasks like store groceries and set+clean a table, which require much more manipulation skills
  - flor1s 9y ago
    Ah yes, I've had the same issue with NAO. One of the best ways to grab an object (water bottle or box) seems to be to do a "hug grasp".

annnnd 9y ago

> ... human size robot called Romeo ... could be used for household tasks. This seems like a very interesting choice of name for a household robot... :-)

dmix 9y ago

Reading this article, it seems like it may have been oversold when it came out. They claim there was a culture clash between the Japan/French offices which may have created a disconnected product strategy. I don't doubt it was an excellent robotics platform that has survived among niche markets, but the critique of the company regarding Pepper as a product is definitely justified. Would Google have even lanuched Pepper if they acquired the company? It seems that SB was in a rush to push out a humanoid product which probably gave them practical experience quickly with real use-cases. That is basically the opposite of Google's strategy where they only release sure-things with large markets. They don't seem to like experimenting in the marketplace the way Pepper seems to have done.