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I think the solution is pretty simple. Keep building things. Make person websites and build communities. Don't host everything on major hosting providers like G

I think the solution is pretty simple. Keep building things. Make person websites and build communities. Don't host everything on major hosting providers like Google or Amazon. Don't rely on Facebook or Google for login or integrations. They only have so much power because we let them. It's more often than not the easier solution. Use tools like GPG, IRC, Email and encourage your friends and family to do the same. The internet hasn't changed, we have, and the only way to take the internet back is if we change ourselves back.

jshelly 9y ago
I have a love hate relationship with oAuth, and I completely agree with you statement.
tucosan 9y ago
How many people do you know, that are able to properly use GPG (i.e. understand the pitfalls of misconfiguration, subkeys, key verification,...)? TBH, I believe the GPG ship has sailed a long time ago, even within the IT community. Using Email does help in what way? Most people do use Mail , Gmail that is. Do you mean Email as a protocol in opposition to Whatsapp, FB Messenger? How does not hosting on the major hosting providers solve the problems of walled gardens and filter bubbles and the closed internet? That's just ephemeral infrastructure. Login integrations can make a lot of sense. I don't really see how not deploying integrations will protect us from walled gardens.
- throw2bit 9y ago
  I sign my commits with GPG.
bogomipz 9y ago
>"Don't rely on Facebook or Google for login or integrations." I think this is a really important point. When I see services that give me a choice of either 1)logging in with Google or 2) logging in with FB, I don't do either. I simply elect to not use that service.
- monk_e_boy 9y ago
  For me and my students -- we always use a google login. With 35 students all using 4 or 5 online services each with a login.... There is no way we can keep control of all those separate login details. There needs to be a central control over login. Sure, login details are pretty old skool bonkers. I'm going to get downvoted to oblivion, but in the real world where I have to hand a class of 35 students over to another teacher and they need to have confidence that all 35 can log in and complete the lesson. Repeat this across all classes and all years. That's a lot of users.
  - bhhaskin 9y ago
    Why not use another single sign on service? Why do you have to use Google? Google is the largest advertiser in the world, and is more and more encroaching on the free and open web.
    - monk_e_boy 9y ago
      > Why not use another single sign on service? Look. I'm not an idiot. I write open source. I love free and open web. Google login works. We use use Gmail - it works. We use google classroom - it just works. Most websites offer Google Login - it just works. When you have 30 students and you waste 2 minutes logging into a website -- that is 2 x 30 == 60 minutes of student learning lost. Little things like that add up.
      - mileycyrusXOXO 9y ago
        Perhaps you should consider being less defensive. I believe (could be wrong) OP asked a genuine question and was interested to hear a response. S/he didn't call you an idiot or question your love for the free web. I think your last paragraph would be sufficient to explain your reasons along with a single, "it just works."
        nicky0 9y ago
        Their response was perfectly reasonable and interesting.
haburka 9y ago
What's wrong with hosting on Google/Amazon? I understand that there is a paranoia of them taking control of your servers or stealing all of your data, but that is almost certainly not going to happen. I think the real issue is that they're monopolizing services that non developers use.
- bhhaskin 9y ago
  It's less about them taking control and stealing data and more about spreading out. If we keep only choosing Google/Amazon then one day there will be no more competitors. There are also plenty of good competitors for smaller/personal projects.
  - rhodysurf 9y ago
    True, but there arent many places that I can host my side projects for free with zero server maintenance like I can on App Engine. Its a trade off.
s73ver 9y ago
If they're the easier solution, then we need to make not using them even easier. You're never going to win by saying, "Yes, using their stuff is easier, but it's bad! Use this complex thing instead!" The only way to encourage others to use the other things is to make them easier.

jshelly 9y ago

I have a love hate relationship with oAuth, and I completely agree with you statement.

tucosan 9y ago

How many people do you know, that are able to properly use GPG (i.e. understand the pitfalls of misconfiguration, subkeys, key verification,...)? TBH, I believe the GPG ship has sailed a long time ago, even within the IT community. Using Email does help in what way? Most people do use Mail , Gmail that is. Do you mean Email as a protocol in opposition to Whatsapp, FB Messenger? How does not hosting on the major hosting providers solve the problems of walled gardens and filter bubbles and the closed internet? That's just ephemeral infrastructure. Login integrations can make a lot of sense. I don't really see how not deploying integrations will protect us from walled gardens.

throw2bit 9y ago
I sign my commits with GPG.

bogomipz 9y ago

>"Don't rely on Facebook or Google for login or integrations." I think this is a really important point. When I see services that give me a choice of either 1)logging in with Google or 2) logging in with FB, I don't do either. I simply elect to not use that service.

monk_e_boy 9y ago
For me and my students -- we always use a google login. With 35 students all using 4 or 5 online services each with a login.... There is no way we can keep control of all those separate login details. There needs to be a central control over login. Sure, login details are pretty old skool bonkers. I'm going to get downvoted to oblivion, but in the real world where I have to hand a class of 35 students over to another teacher and they need to have confidence that all 35 can log in and complete the lesson. Repeat this across all classes and all years. That's a lot of users.
- bhhaskin 9y ago
  Why not use another single sign on service? Why do you have to use Google? Google is the largest advertiser in the world, and is more and more encroaching on the free and open web.
  - monk_e_boy 9y ago
    > Why not use another single sign on service? Look. I'm not an idiot. I write open source. I love free and open web. Google login works. We use use Gmail - it works. We use google classroom - it just works. Most websites offer Google Login - it just works. When you have 30 students and you waste 2 minutes logging into a website -- that is 2 x 30 == 60 minutes of student learning lost. Little things like that add up.
    - mileycyrusXOXO 9y ago
      Perhaps you should consider being less defensive. I believe (could be wrong) OP asked a genuine question and was interested to hear a response. S/he didn't call you an idiot or question your love for the free web. I think your last paragraph would be sufficient to explain your reasons along with a single, "it just works."
      - nicky0 9y ago
        Their response was perfectly reasonable and interesting.

haburka 9y ago

What's wrong with hosting on Google/Amazon? I understand that there is a paranoia of them taking control of your servers or stealing all of your data, but that is almost certainly not going to happen. I think the real issue is that they're monopolizing services that non developers use.

bhhaskin 9y ago
It's less about them taking control and stealing data and more about spreading out. If we keep only choosing Google/Amazon then one day there will be no more competitors. There are also plenty of good competitors for smaller/personal projects.
- rhodysurf 9y ago
  True, but there arent many places that I can host my side projects for free with zero server maintenance like I can on App Engine. Its a trade off.

s73ver 9y ago

If they're the easier solution, then we need to make not using them even easier. You're never going to win by saying, "Yes, using their stuff is easier, but it's bad! Use this complex thing instead!" The only way to encourage others to use the other things is to make them easier.