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> I mean jesus, aren't many people on here some kind of intellectual elite? Instead of debating based on facts and laws (codified morale and ethics) you expect

by jlg23 9y ago

> I mean jesus, aren't many people on here some kind of intellectual elite? Instead of debating based on facts and laws (codified morale and ethics) you expect the "intellectual elite" to debate mob style based on gut feelings? > This kind of shit has to stop Personally I agree. But some context: * Germany holds federal elections later this year. * The business practices where not secret. Not at all. They have been debated publicly for years. * The business practices have been allowed to go on by the very same who now fake outrage. * All but the most incompetent players will provide a "Rechtsgutachten" and thus walk free. A "Rechtsgutachten" in German law is basically the testimony of an expert witness [1] that you get before doing something. If later a judge deems your doing wrong, you pull that out and can rightfully claim that someone from the government who is supposed to know more than you told you "it's ok". [1] in this case someone with actual judicial/legal powers like a judge or a high ranking IRS official

pdimitar 9y ago
> Instead of debating based on facts and laws (codified morale and ethics) you expect the "intellectual elite" to debate mob style based on gut feelings? Yes, I absolutely expect that. We're not only intellect, we have feelings as well. If we only operated on intellect, one could argue that the black people would forever retain status of sub-humans (which was never true!) and slavery would be perfectly fine since it actually made sense economically from the point of view of the slave owners. At some point somebody emotionally yelled "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, WE HAVE RIGHTS!" and things picked up from there. There were no strict rules of the kind you ask for when it came to rebelling against such a rigid status quo. Does that mean it shouldn't have ever happened? What are you arguing in favor of? Throw away all gut feelings and emotions out of all politics and lawsuits? I am very sure history knows cases when a judge felt sympathy for a disadvantaged person even though technically the law was on the side of a more powerful person/organization. Then that judge followed a moral code and made an "illogical" decision. "Justice" isn't well-defined and won't ever be and I think it's time to accept that this is okay. Rules can be improved and made clearer with time but there's always a case where the gut feelings are a necessary part of the whole picture. Even if a certain set of morals are written down, that set won't ever be precise. Like damn, sometimes I feel people in HN want to get rid of their bodies and emotions and just become a soulless AI living on a server in a low-orbit. Those kinds of people I won't ever trust with justice though.

by jlg23 9y ago

pdimitar 9y ago

> Instead of debating based on facts and laws (codified morale and ethics) you expect the "intellectual elite" to debate mob style based on gut feelings? Yes, I absolutely expect that. We're not only intellect, we have feelings as well. If we only operated on intellect, one could argue that the black people would forever retain status of sub-humans (which was never true!) and slavery would be perfectly fine since it actually made sense economically from the point of view of the slave owners. At some point somebody emotionally yelled "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, WE HAVE RIGHTS!" and things picked up from there. There were no strict rules of the kind you ask for when it came to rebelling against such a rigid status quo. Does that mean it shouldn't have ever happened? What are you arguing in favor of? Throw away all gut feelings and emotions out of all politics and lawsuits? I am very sure history knows cases when a judge felt sympathy for a disadvantaged person even though technically the law was on the side of a more powerful person/organization. Then that judge followed a moral code and made an "illogical" decision. "Justice" isn't well-defined and won't ever be and I think it's time to accept that this is okay. Rules can be improved and made clearer with time but there's always a case where the gut feelings are a necessary part of the whole picture. Even if a certain set of morals are written down, that set won't ever be precise. Like damn, sometimes I feel people in HN want to get rid of their bodies and emotions and just become a soulless AI living on a server in a low-orbit. Those kinds of people I won't ever trust with justice though.