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Interview with Drew Houston, CEO of Dropbox
- kmfrk 9y agoBe great if they could bounce back from using a third of my CPU on basic indexing.
- alberth 9y agoDropbox is unusable for me due to it pegging my CPU at 100%. And yes, I've opened mutiple supports tickets over the year. The problem is I put my Outlook .pst in my Dropbox folder. When I have Outlook open, which is nearly the entire day, Outlook puts a lock on the .pst file. Instead of Dropbox ignoring that file and coming back to it later - it's just gets stuck in some kind of infinitely loop trying to synch the locked file and can't. Resulting in 100% CPU usage.
- NewSystems 9y agoAnd when you moved your PST file out of the DropBox folder it works fine?
- nolok 9y agoYes, when he stops saving the file he cares about it works.
- NewSystems 9y agoOk, I'm confused, just store the PST elsewhere. The location can be changed. Sounds like he should make a copy to dropbox, if he wants a copy backed up. Can't backup an open file after all. This is just how computers work.
- nolok 9y agoHe is not complaining that the file can or cannot be backed up, and Dropbox is no backup service by the way. He is complaining that their software hangs on open file instead of doing the sensible thing and not using 100% cpu until the lock goes away. That has nothing to do with "how computers work".
- susw 9y agoCertainly a flaw in Dropbox, but one that can be easily worked around I think. Don't put the .pst directly in the Dropbox folder. Instead set up a scheduled task/cron job to copy it into Dropbox every few hours. The Outlook .pst file plays notoriously bad with backup and synching in my experience. I set up CrashPlan for a family member once, and when I followed up a few weeks later it hadn't backed anything up in weeks because it was stuck on the .pst. In this case it was because the .pst was so huge and kept changing so frequently. By the time it had been uploaded for off-site backup, then it had changed and CrashPlan would start uploading it again. CrashPlan wasn't smart enough to prioritize other files in between, probably because it puts the most recently changed files in front of the queue or something.
- mc32 9y agoI think CP prioritizes smaller more frequently accessed files. That said, you could use a different "back up set" for PSTs so that they not interfere with the backup of files in the other set.
- daddykotex 9y agoMaybe we could let them know so they can fix the issue (maybe you did already)?
- chinathrow 9y ago"And yes, I've opened mutiple supports tickets over the year."
- kernelsanderz 9y agoI have the same problem. I basically use Dropbox as my work folder and put all my files in there. As a developer I have millions of small files. It takes 2-3 weeks to sync the dropbox from scratch (currently 285gb of dropbox files). And my CPU is regularly pegged at 100%. I basically have to switch Dropbox off when I'm not plugged into power on my Macbook Pro in order to conserve battery. I've contacted support several times, and their response was basically "don't". I'm on one of their top plans (2TB). What's the point in having such large plans when the number of files you have causes the whole service to break down? Been searching for a good alternative to Dropbox. Something that would be CPU efficient, safe, secure and reliable. I also use their packrat plan (saves a history of every file ever), which is nice too. Any other HN readers have any alternatives? I really just want a plug and play solution, and not have to roll my own. I don't trust Apple iCloud for one bit as they've been quite inept at running cloud services. I've tried Google drive with poor results too.
- mgirdley 9y agoI eventually settled on Apple Time Machine. It backs up to a home NAS and a handful of drives at each office. The NAS can be configured to back up to S3 automatically.
- brianwawok 9y agoYes, why not use git for the code files? I have a single command on alias that goes and checks out all my git projects, and does a bit pull on any existing. Can switch between Computers in like 30 seconds. And it's all free git on bitbucket. Git is much better way to deal with small files. Dropbox is ok for large files or nontechnical users.
- kijin 9y agoI think all the consumer-grade backup and sync services are designed for a relatively small number of large files, such as high-res photos, songs and videos. I have about 300K files (250GB total) in my 1TB SpiderOak account. The UI has always been atrociously slow, but backup speeds are okay when most files are static. Things get more interesting when I check out another branch in git and touch a few thousand files at a time. As for sync, well, I've all but given up on editing a file on my desktop, opening my laptop, and expecting the updated file to appear anytime soon. If I really need to sync a file immediately, I put in in my Dropbox (free account, almost empty).
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- plg 9y agohonest Q --- I'm not trolling I swear --- is Apple's iCloud any better in this regard? I know it's not cross platform... but if one is using Apple stuff exclusively, is the iCloud Documents in its current incarnation usable? Asking honestly
- zepto 9y agoYes - the current incarnation and ONLY the current incarnation - I.e. iOS10 and Sierra, is bulletproof and fast.
- marklyon 9y agoSix questions, two about politics.
- jameskilton 9y agoNot sure if you mean to be negative here, but they are two very relevant questions to everyone in tech. I love his answer regarding immigration: > Well, it’s really important—and it hits close to home for us. My co-founder Arash Ferdowsi’s parents immigrated here from Iran. If these policies were in effect back then, there would be no Dropbox.
- mc32 9y agoWho's to say he would not have developed it in Iran or some other third country? Or is he saying the secret sauce is US + foreign talent and that that formula is atomic? I would posit that that is false as there are many world class tech companies which did not begin in the US nor need the US to succeed. To be clear, I'm glad they both successfully founded the company and that it contributes to the economy, but that's altogether a different topic.
- oblio 9y agoI'm going to stretch the comparison a lot, but a great deal of the people working on the Manhattan Project were not born in the US. What the US is doing right now puts it at a competitive disadvantage, IMO.
- mc32 9y agoTrue enough. Both the US and USSR benefitted from raiding foreign talent as well as from taking in sympathizers to our/their ideologies. Fortunately we got some of the best, however, we did not have a right to them. It was circumstance, a good circumstance for us. Better would have been that it had been unnecessary to acquire the talent in order to win wars, prevent further suffering and vanquish miserable ideologies. Interestingly, we didn't raid Japan for talent so much and maybe that contributed to their post war performance.
- mrjasonh 9y agoHad the opportunity to listen to Drew speak recently. He seems like a great guy and very humble. Definitely rooting for them.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- nilved 9y agoThat's a shame. Everything on drop-dropbox.com still applies.
- mmjaa 9y agoDropbox has been, for me, a most disappointing outcome of the whole Internet'ization of computers. I truly believe that Dropbox is a lousy solution to a problem created by ignorance on the part of the OS vendors. There is absolutely no good reason that the computers of today cannot share media seamlessly between themselves, without requiring the use or involvement of an external third party - the only reason its necessary to have Dropbox now, is because OS vendors fell asleep at the wheel and forgot that they're producing Operating Systems. I think this will change, though - OS vendors are going to catch up to this market, and Dropbox will become less and less important as the OS starts to do its job again, and lead on these kinds of services.
- brianwawok 9y agoWhat about multi OS. You think a Windows pc, a MacBook pro, and an android phone will all sync files at the OS level? Really?
- mmjaa 9y agoYup. Technology to do this has existed since the birth of filesystems. This is a non-issue.
- numerlo 9y agoIt doesn't matter if the technology exists (which it does) what matters is if the vendors will cooperate (which they won't).
- lunchables 9y agoIf there was a standardized protocol/system for "cloud syncing" of files it's entirely likely they would all support it. Kind of like how they all support SMB/CIFS now.
- jasode 9y agoIt's not a protocol issue. A universal protocol would only handle the "data in flight". The other issue is "data at rest" which is storage problem. As analogy, SMTP is a universal protocol and yet email giants like GMail/Hotmail/Yahoo exist. They store emails. Average users don't want to point DNS MX records to their laptops running home mail servers 24/7. - Dropbox-the-client-software simplifies "data in flight". - Dropbox-the-cloud-storage simplifies "data at rest". Since storage costs money (e.g. see Amazon Cloud Drive drops "unlimited" plan), it means there would be conflicting business interests from OS vendors at that infrastructure layer. This why a company that was _not_ Apple/Microsoft /Google/Redhat such as Dropbox was able to fill a gap.
- threepipeproblm 9y agoI recently started moving away from Dropbox after realizing I am not comfortable with how aggressive and anti-user this software is. Last year the story broke about very questionable tactics of Dropbox Mac to gain root access. This year I had a client whose machine was crippled because of a fun Dropbox default where, upon inserting any USB device Dropbox will automatically copy. The user inserted a camera with 4GB of hunting pics and it basically downed his machine. Now maybe he clicked on something to technically approve of this. But I surveyed the user base whom I had asked to install Dropbox and more than one had experienced a problem with this "feature". In one case the employee almost got in trouble for personal use of a machine, because she had connected her phone and didn't realize all her personal pictures were copied there. Less savvy users were involved, but I need to feel comfortable recommending a product like this to less savvy users.
- ThomPete 9y agoI don't see how it's questionable. They did it to improve the user experience. If anything blame the OS for providing the ability to set it up properly.
- threepipeproblm 9y agoI doubt most people are comfortable with deception around root access, in order to have a better user experience. This is evidenced by the fact that Dropbox felt the need to apologize and alter their behavior. Largely through HN activism BTW https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/09/dropbox-responds-to-accusations-its-mac-desktop-client-hacks-os-x-security/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/09/09/dropbox-responds-to-accusa...
- ThomPete 9y agoMost people have no idea what root access mean. They explaining themselves is not evidence of what at all.
- threepipeproblm 9y ago
- exoplanet1 9y agoThey bounced back by raising prices, after users upload too much data to switch. Dropbox for Business launched at $12.50 per user/mo for unlimited storage. It's now $20.00 per user/mo. Bait and switch your way to profitability.
- z1mm32m4n 9y agoIt's impossible to think that the features DfB launched with are equal or less than what they are now, so some of the price increase can be attributed to DfB providing more value to the customer.
- neolefty 9y agoWhether or not you personally like Dropbox, they are an example of going up against the largest competitors on the planet and surviving. And not just an example in general, but an example in detail -- decisions and efforts they made at every point, from engineering to corporate finance -- have been factors in that story.
- 8ytecoder 9y agoA better characterization would be "the first mover fighting off large competitors". (Unless I'm misremembering) There was no direct equivalent of Dropbox at the time. I had tried everything from Skydrive to rsync. Dropbox solved a real problem with storage at that time. (I don't use them anymore because they are too expensive but good for them that they are able to charge so much)
- zminjie 9y agoWhere can you find these details on the decisions they made and the effects on their survival? Would be an interesting read.
- TroubleTicket 9y agoIt's almost all spin. Enterprises are not adopting Dropbox (or Box) at any real scale because of privacy, security and control of data concerns. It's why you won't see any business that has data compliance requirements (such as banks) listed as a reference customers. The opportunity for large businesses to use Dropbox is very limited.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- comstock 9y ago"That said, privacy is our focus, and we have whole teams that scrutinize any requests from governments to make sure they’re legitimate." For a company with Condoleezza Rice on the board. A person who helped pioneer warentless surveillance. This doesn't really ring true: http://www.drop-dropbox.com http://www.drop-dropbox.com
- seanieb 9y agoMaybe judge their record rather than baselessly inferring that Rice has any say on any of this policy. https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-government-data-requests-2015 https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-government-data-reques... (Full disclosure I'm ex Dropbox security)
- mockindignant 9y agoI don't see where he infers anything. I do see where he notes that the company says one thing then their actions indicate something else. Also, that link is from 2015.
- pdog 9y ago> There are dozens of cloud-based tools aimed at business users. Can all these apps coexist? > It's a mess. You have all these new tools like Slack, but they're totally disconnected from the old ones, so people are constantly toggling back and forth. This fragmented experience wastes a lot of time, and it makes it really hard to focus. The proliferation and fragmentation of SaaS apps is a huge problem for businesses. When Drew Houston says it's a mess, you know there's a massive startup idea here.
- jpalomaki 9y agoIt's a mess and also gets fairly expensive quickly when you put $10-20/month/user to several services. One way forward is consolidated services like Bitrix. They may not be as good as Slack, Dropbox, Asana etc for some specific tasks, but may provide more integrated service with smaller price tag. Another option would be for "best of breed" companies to team up to offer package deals.
- jszymborski 9y ago> Another option would be for "best of breed" companies to team up to offer package deals. That's a great idea, and I can't imagine why I haven't seen it in a meaningful way. I'd be very much on board to buy a "web office" bundle with Dropbox/Slack/Github/Trello or something like that if it meant upwards of a 15% discount. It's obviously easier to make a personal budget for one re-occuring SaaS bill than 6 $5-10/mo SaaS bills. Another obvious advantage is that a lot of these little folk have common enemies with MS/Google/Amazon, and this is a great way for them to achieve similar lock-in with almost zero investment. Finally, Dropbox/Slack/GitHub/etc... all have awesome integrations that either already exist in each-others products or are super easy to implement. I have a vague feeling there was a lesson about this in In Search of Stupidity [0], but I can't be sure. [0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1191767.In_Search_of_Stupidity https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1191767.In_Search_of_Stu...
- btown 9y ago> a massive startup idea https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/ is evolving!
- ap46 9y agoI open dropbox manually on my Mac & quit it manually after a file has been synced. I don't see how can they survive any longer except for institutional customers who should be extra careful about surveillance.
- j_s 9y agoI only use the web UI.
- champagnepapi 9y agoSame
- packetslave 9y agoPeople who do that or only use the web UI (to be blunt, people who frequent HN at all) are not Dropbox's target audience.
- yuhong 9y agoInterestingly, dhouston don't post much on HN nowadays or even on twitter.
- 801699 9y agordiff is free, open source and gives control to the user. dropbox is large, binary-only, obfuscated code, built on FOSS (uses same library as rdiff), makes some people very wealthy and gives third party control over user's files. i have never used dropbox. no need.
- manigandham 9y agoDropbox still has the best syncing app and integration, but is terrible with multiple accounts and any business use. Paper is also useless. Box offers great controls for businesses, better API and built in workflow engine, but has crappy syncing app. Box Notes also useless. OneDrive is just shit in every way possible and acts more like an unwanted virus in new Windows installations. Google Drive has solid syncing with built-in search and google docs integration which is the best office suite other than MS office. Their Team Drives feature is finally doing things right for businesses, although it still has a broken permissions system and issues with desktop integration. There's also Apple, Amazon, Egnyte, Quip, etc for other niches. Overall, we are nowhere near perfect with any service. All of these companies will continue to grow since there's no singularly great option yet.
- danielodio 9y agoCompletely disagree re: Paper. It's one of the most-used tools at our company, and we love it.
- manigandham 9y agoWhy? Google Docs or Office 365 can give you real-time collaborative editing that's faster, more stable and more reliable - along with all the other features like built-in file sync. What does Paper do for you that's so much better?
- lancewiggs 9y agoAgree with all of these except Google Drive, which, if you are not completely part of the Google ecosystem is difficult to use.
- manigandham 9y agoThat's similar to the rest in that a standalone file sync is just not as nice compared to having it integrated. We've found that G Suite is a lot easier to work with than Office 365 (unless you need offline office apps).
- Simulacra 9y agoA lot of my nonprofit clients are using Dropbox for its simplicity, but they sometimes have trouble locating things, and managing it when someone syncs their entire computer.