4 ms·

I think robots are cool, but it is a bit depressing that a big driver for their development is that the japanese want to keep immigrants out... makes me a bit h

I think robots are cool, but it is a bit depressing that a big driver for their development is that the japanese want to keep immigrants out... makes me a bit hesitant to wish them luck with it.

mc32 9y ago
It's their country and they can decide their self determination. They have no obligation to subsidize other countries' economic mismanagement. The govt and pop at large want to keep Japan Japanese. It's not a new religion. They've been that way since before cmdr Perry. I can respect that.
puranjay 9y ago
Contrary to perception, open immigration is unfair to the weakest and poorest in a society. I live in India. My country has 300M people living in acute poverty - less than $1/day. These are the people who would likely benefit most from immigrating to a developed country with better healthcare and opportunities. Yet: 1. These people would be liabilities in a developed nation since they have no transferable skills apart from manual labor. Most can't even read or write. 2. In 99% of cases, these people wouldn't even know anything about immigration, refugee status, etc. Open immigration essentially helps people who already have the knowledge and means to immigrate. These are not the poorest and most in-need. The Indian immigrants moving to America or Europe can have perfectly okay lives in India. I don't begrudge them for moving, but for western people to assume a philanthropic stance for taking them in is wrong. You aren't helping the poorest; you're helping the "doing okay" segment of the population.
- ben_w 9y ago
  And interesting perspective. What do you forsee happening when tech like this replaces the labour of those currently earning less than $1/day?
  - puranjay 9y ago
    The agriculture sector employs nearly 55% of India's workforce. There is already enough tech to replace 90% of this labor force - simple mechanization. Yet, legal roadblocks make mechanization unfeasible in India (laws against owning farm land beyond a certain level, making mechanized farming effectively unfeasible). These roadblocks are mostly because of political reasons. Politicians know that if they were to make mechanized farming possible, they'd see massive unemployment and hence, massive loss of votes. So the same thing is going to happen to any other technological advancement that affects this massive vote bank: it will be stopped at a political level. Silicon Valley ambitions tend to fail hard when confronted with the reality of acute poverty and the kind of political situations it engenders.
    - ben_w 9y ago
      Thanks. I'm not sure if that situation is a good one or a bad one, but it's good to know about.
- Mediterraneo10 9y ago
  Being able to do manual labour is still enough of a desirable skill on its own, and yes, hordes of the poor from the Indian subcontinent emigrate (albeit on a temporary contractual basis). The outflow of dirt-poor Indian farming villages to Gulf construction projects has been a phenomenon for decades now.
  - puranjay 9y ago
    The people emigrating aren't the poorest of the poor. The gulf workers you talk about are mostly from India's most developed state (Kerala), are educated (or at least, literate), and have access to decent healthcare. The people I'm talking about are from states where 40% of the population lives below poverty line and the literacy rate is still at 60%.
- jawbone3 9y ago
  What, you are saying that keeping people with more opportunities than the poorest in India helps them more than letting those with means emigrate and send remittances? Or do you just not care for those 300 millions of citizen?
Banthum 9y ago
I wish the West would learn from them. In Tokyo these days, you can go to a culture festival and not have to see police stationed every block with assault rifles and flak jackets. They're watching and learning from us, that's for sure.
- ben_w 9y ago
  Visit England some time. The UK doesn't even routinely let the police handle guns, not even pistols.
  - Baeocystin 9y ago
    Do you think that will still be the case in the coming months? Honest question.
    - otoburb 9y ago
      The parent's answer will probably depend heavily on the results of the snap general UK election. Polls close today at 10PM GMT.
    - ben_w 9y ago
      Guns are extremely unpopular in the UK, so unless something insane happens like UKIP winning outright, I expect most police will remain unarmed. In fact, even if UKIP did win outright, I doubt there are enough qualified instructors to train a significant number of police with firearms in just a few months. I think there are only about 1000 officers in the UK with firearms training at the moment.
      - Banthum 9y ago
        To be clear, I was talking about culture festivals (as an example of a public gathering). Not just any random day in the city.
        ben_w 9y ago
dhf17 9y ago
What's wrong with that? They just want to preserve their culture, don't see a problem with that. I've spent a decent amount of time there, much of which was with locals. Despite being a white dude outsider, part of my attraction to Japan is the cultural homogeneity. I hope they can keep it up.

I think robots are cool, but it is a bit depressing that a big driver for their development is that the japanese want to keep immigrants out... makes me a bit hesitant to wish them luck with it.

mc32 9y ago

It's their country and they can decide their self determination. They have no obligation to subsidize other countries' economic mismanagement. The govt and pop at large want to keep Japan Japanese. It's not a new religion. They've been that way since before cmdr Perry. I can respect that.

puranjay 9y ago

Contrary to perception, open immigration is unfair to the weakest and poorest in a society. I live in India. My country has 300M people living in acute poverty - less than $1/day. These are the people who would likely benefit most from immigrating to a developed country with better healthcare and opportunities. Yet: 1. These people would be liabilities in a developed nation since they have no transferable skills apart from manual labor. Most can't even read or write. 2. In 99% of cases, these people wouldn't even know anything about immigration, refugee status, etc. Open immigration essentially helps people who already have the knowledge and means to immigrate. These are not the poorest and most in-need. The Indian immigrants moving to America or Europe can have perfectly okay lives in India. I don't begrudge them for moving, but for western people to assume a philanthropic stance for taking them in is wrong. You aren't helping the poorest; you're helping the "doing okay" segment of the population.

ben_w 9y ago
And interesting perspective. What do you forsee happening when tech like this replaces the labour of those currently earning less than $1/day?
- puranjay 9y ago
  The agriculture sector employs nearly 55% of India's workforce. There is already enough tech to replace 90% of this labor force - simple mechanization. Yet, legal roadblocks make mechanization unfeasible in India (laws against owning farm land beyond a certain level, making mechanized farming effectively unfeasible). These roadblocks are mostly because of political reasons. Politicians know that if they were to make mechanized farming possible, they'd see massive unemployment and hence, massive loss of votes. So the same thing is going to happen to any other technological advancement that affects this massive vote bank: it will be stopped at a political level. Silicon Valley ambitions tend to fail hard when confronted with the reality of acute poverty and the kind of political situations it engenders.
  - ben_w 9y ago
    Thanks. I'm not sure if that situation is a good one or a bad one, but it's good to know about.
Mediterraneo10 9y ago
Being able to do manual labour is still enough of a desirable skill on its own, and yes, hordes of the poor from the Indian subcontinent emigrate (albeit on a temporary contractual basis). The outflow of dirt-poor Indian farming villages to Gulf construction projects has been a phenomenon for decades now.
- puranjay 9y ago
  The people emigrating aren't the poorest of the poor. The gulf workers you talk about are mostly from India's most developed state (Kerala), are educated (or at least, literate), and have access to decent healthcare. The people I'm talking about are from states where 40% of the population lives below poverty line and the literacy rate is still at 60%.
jawbone3 9y ago
What, you are saying that keeping people with more opportunities than the poorest in India helps them more than letting those with means emigrate and send remittances? Or do you just not care for those 300 millions of citizen?

Banthum 9y ago

I wish the West would learn from them. In Tokyo these days, you can go to a culture festival and not have to see police stationed every block with assault rifles and flak jackets. They're watching and learning from us, that's for sure.

ben_w 9y ago
Visit England some time. The UK doesn't even routinely let the police handle guns, not even pistols.
- Baeocystin 9y ago
  Do you think that will still be the case in the coming months? Honest question.
  - otoburb 9y ago
    The parent's answer will probably depend heavily on the results of the snap general UK election. Polls close today at 10PM GMT.
  - ben_w 9y ago
    Guns are extremely unpopular in the UK, so unless something insane happens like UKIP winning outright, I expect most police will remain unarmed. In fact, even if UKIP did win outright, I doubt there are enough qualified instructors to train a significant number of police with firearms in just a few months. I think there are only about 1000 officers in the UK with firearms training at the moment.
    - Banthum 9y ago
      To be clear, I was talking about culture festivals (as an example of a public gathering). Not just any random day in the city.
      - ben_w 9y ago

dhf17 9y ago

What's wrong with that? They just want to preserve their culture, don't see a problem with that. I've spent a decent amount of time there, much of which was with locals. Despite being a white dude outsider, part of my attraction to Japan is the cultural homogeneity. I hope they can keep it up.