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So what would be the effect on the ecosystem if a species with built-in insecticides got out?

Baeocystin 9y ago
Well, consider that plants as a group already produce endogenous insecticides by the boatload. Adding a strain that produces another one is just adding one more example to a pile that is already huge. Which is not to say that there aren't any risks at all. But plants and insects are already locked in a millions of years long battle/cooperation. And look how quickly insects have developed resistances to our modern pesticides. Adaption to something new appears to take years to decades, not centuries or longer.
- DarkKomunalec 9y ago
  'insects have developed resistances' Some insects. And you're very correct that the insect-insecticide battle has been going on for a while - that doesn't mean giving one side a huge leg-up won't have consequences. Genetic engineering can accomplish millennia of evolution in a single generation - the two are not the same.
  - Baeocystin 9y ago
    I don't disagree that there are risks. But genetic reshuffling, recombination, and horizontal gene transfer has been going on en masse in the microbiota we are surround by for billions of years. I think once we start considering introducing truly novel genes, we will have a case for greater caution and reserve. But so far, all projects are of the 'transfer this already existent gene to this other organism', and I think that is a less risky proposition overall.
    - unknown_apostle 9y ago
      In this matter of extreme complexity and nonlinearity, how can you ever tell the point where being paranoid is the right thing to do? E.g. how can you know that transferring a gene from maize to petunias is still "sufficiently close" to the level of variation seen in ancient natural processes and evolution? (Genuine question but also genuine worry about this.)
  - funnyfacts365 9y ago
    Some insects? What about nicotine? That insecticid kills them all, humans included
    - _0ffh 9y ago
      Bar the tobacco beetle, I presume.
    - undersuit 9y ago
      >In 1997, the last year for which global data was available, over 5.5 million pounds of the pesticide fumigant methyl bromide were applied to tobacco fields worldwide. A few tobacco plants in isolation are going to be protected from insects easily developing a resistance to their natural defenses. We've been growing tobacco plants in massively concentrated fields for 400 years in this country. Nicotine is still a useful insecticide, just as Penicillin is still useful antibiotic.

Well, consider that plants as a group already produce endogenous insecticides by the boatload. Adding a strain that produces another one is just adding one more example to a pile that is already huge. Which is not to say that there aren't any risks at all. But plants and insects are already locked in a millions of years long battle/cooperation. And look how quickly insects have developed resistances to our modern pesticides. Adaption to something new appears to take years to decades, not centuries or longer.

DarkKomunalec 9y ago
'insects have developed resistances' Some insects. And you're very correct that the insect-insecticide battle has been going on for a while - that doesn't mean giving one side a huge leg-up won't have consequences. Genetic engineering can accomplish millennia of evolution in a single generation - the two are not the same.
- Baeocystin 9y ago
  I don't disagree that there are risks. But genetic reshuffling, recombination, and horizontal gene transfer has been going on en masse in the microbiota we are surround by for billions of years. I think once we start considering introducing truly novel genes, we will have a case for greater caution and reserve. But so far, all projects are of the 'transfer this already existent gene to this other organism', and I think that is a less risky proposition overall.
  - unknown_apostle 9y ago
    In this matter of extreme complexity and nonlinearity, how can you ever tell the point where being paranoid is the right thing to do? E.g. how can you know that transferring a gene from maize to petunias is still "sufficiently close" to the level of variation seen in ancient natural processes and evolution? (Genuine question but also genuine worry about this.)
- funnyfacts365 9y ago
  Some insects? What about nicotine? That insecticid kills them all, humans included
  - _0ffh 9y ago
    Bar the tobacco beetle, I presume.
  - undersuit 9y ago
    >In 1997, the last year for which global data was available, over 5.5 million pounds of the pesticide fumigant methyl bromide were applied to tobacco fields worldwide. A few tobacco plants in isolation are going to be protected from insects easily developing a resistance to their natural defenses. We've been growing tobacco plants in massively concentrated fields for 400 years in this country. Nicotine is still a useful insecticide, just as Penicillin is still useful antibiotic.