3 ms·

> The problem in the U.S. isn't that costs are hidden--in Canada, with fully socialized insurance, health care consumers are actually much less wasteful of reso

> The problem in the U.S. isn't that costs are hidden--in Canada, with fully socialized insurance, health care consumers are actually much less wasteful of resources because they pursue health care in the degree they feel they need it, irrespective of money. Which lead to a 6 month delay to get an MRI in BC (which proud itself to be no. 1 province). Not to mention that the public insurance does NOT include dental, or if it does, only the bare minimum. I had to personally pay for a root canal because only a complete extraction was being reimbursed. Moreover, all my cleaning have been out of MY pocket, on top of MSP/RAMQ. I really don't get why Canadian think their healthcare is so star sprangling awesome... It's not.

the_mitsuhiko 9y ago
> Which lead to a 6 month delay to get an MRI in BC (which proud itself to be no. 1 province). Not to mention that the public insurance does NOT include dental, or if it does, only the bare minimum. I had to personally pay for a root canal because only a complete extraction was being reimbursed. Moreover, all my cleaning have been out of MY pocket, on top of MSP/RAMQ. But isn't that what makes it great? I have no experience with Canada but Austria is not very different in that regard. My state insurance costs me (purely medical) around 5000 Euro per year independent if I self insure or through my employer. It gives me about what Canada gives you. No copays for employees and there is a 10% or 20% copay for self employed or management. In addition I pay about 3000 EUR a year extra for private insurance. I did not feel like waiting 2 months for an MRI so I decided to use my private insurance at a private carrier. Paid 500 EUR for that out of my pocket and the private insurance reimbursed everything but the contrast agent. I could also decide not to pay for my private insurance at all but I did the math and the plan I have now seems a pretty good way to spend money for later in life. It gives me the freedom to chose what I want. The cost for most non covered procedures is laughably cheap here. It seems like a better deal for my money.
- freeflight 9y ago
  >I did not feel like waiting 2 months for an MRI so I decided to use my private insurance at a private carrier. I wonder what's up with all those MRI shortages in some places? I got my last MRI a couple of years ago in Germany, fully covered by public insurance, had to wait like 2 weeks for my appointment. Sounds like some places are in dire need of more MRI capacity?
  - the_mitsuhiko 9y ago
    > I wonder what's up with all those MRI shortages in some places? In Austria it's largely because the insurer wants people not to do MRIs unless necessary. So they typically sens you to an doctor first to confirm you need one, the approve from the insurer and then you get to wait a bit. There are plenty of MRI machines in Austria because the place I got mine also takea publicly insured patients.
  - fatbird 9y ago
    Because Canada's approach to universal coverage is socialized insurance, it controls costs overall with price controls and with funding big ticket medicine carefully. MRIs are very expensive to buy and operate, comparatively, so for elective use (which includes a doctor treating someone with headaches and wants one to rule out a brain tumour), you're on a waiting list that could be six months or longer. For emergency use (like my nephew who fell and hit his head) you get it right away.
    - freeflight 9y ago
      >Because Canada's approach to universal coverage is socialized insurance But so is Germany's? I didn't get that MRI because "I just felt like it", it was due to decade long migraine problems and I had to see a neurologist before getting the MRI. I still don't understand these massive waiting times in some places, sounds more like a lack of capacity than anything else.
      - fatbird 9y ago
        Yes, it's a deliberate lack of capacity for a common form of big ticket medicine, which reduces costs overall. If you have migraines in Canada, you'll likely end up getting an MRI at some point, and you might wait six months to get it (though there are private options, and there are also ways to get in before your appointment like being ready on the cancellation list). For a lot of things, MRIs are a medical convenience, not a necessity. When they're medically necessary, you get in within hours--my nephew got driven to the hospital with a head injury, and an MRI was the first thing they did. But if it's elective, you go on a waiting list, which might be short, but might be long. This is probably the most complained about aspect of Canadian health care, with some justice, but it's not obvious that eliminating all wait times with sufficient capacity for immediate access would yield better medical outcomes for the extra cost.
fatbird 9y ago
I live in Vancouver. BC #1? LOL. We're 9th in education spending in a country with 10 provinces.

the_mitsuhiko 9y ago

> Which lead to a 6 month delay to get an MRI in BC (which proud itself to be no. 1 province). Not to mention that the public insurance does NOT include dental, or if it does, only the bare minimum. I had to personally pay for a root canal because only a complete extraction was being reimbursed. Moreover, all my cleaning have been out of MY pocket, on top of MSP/RAMQ. But isn't that what makes it great? I have no experience with Canada but Austria is not very different in that regard. My state insurance costs me (purely medical) around 5000 Euro per year independent if I self insure or through my employer. It gives me about what Canada gives you. No copays for employees and there is a 10% or 20% copay for self employed or management. In addition I pay about 3000 EUR a year extra for private insurance. I did not feel like waiting 2 months for an MRI so I decided to use my private insurance at a private carrier. Paid 500 EUR for that out of my pocket and the private insurance reimbursed everything but the contrast agent. I could also decide not to pay for my private insurance at all but I did the math and the plan I have now seems a pretty good way to spend money for later in life. It gives me the freedom to chose what I want. The cost for most non covered procedures is laughably cheap here. It seems like a better deal for my money.

freeflight 9y ago
>I did not feel like waiting 2 months for an MRI so I decided to use my private insurance at a private carrier. I wonder what's up with all those MRI shortages in some places? I got my last MRI a couple of years ago in Germany, fully covered by public insurance, had to wait like 2 weeks for my appointment. Sounds like some places are in dire need of more MRI capacity?
- the_mitsuhiko 9y ago
  > I wonder what's up with all those MRI shortages in some places? In Austria it's largely because the insurer wants people not to do MRIs unless necessary. So they typically sens you to an doctor first to confirm you need one, the approve from the insurer and then you get to wait a bit. There are plenty of MRI machines in Austria because the place I got mine also takea publicly insured patients.
- fatbird 9y ago
  Because Canada's approach to universal coverage is socialized insurance, it controls costs overall with price controls and with funding big ticket medicine carefully. MRIs are very expensive to buy and operate, comparatively, so for elective use (which includes a doctor treating someone with headaches and wants one to rule out a brain tumour), you're on a waiting list that could be six months or longer. For emergency use (like my nephew who fell and hit his head) you get it right away.
  - freeflight 9y ago
    >Because Canada's approach to universal coverage is socialized insurance But so is Germany's? I didn't get that MRI because "I just felt like it", it was due to decade long migraine problems and I had to see a neurologist before getting the MRI. I still don't understand these massive waiting times in some places, sounds more like a lack of capacity than anything else.
    - fatbird 9y ago
      Yes, it's a deliberate lack of capacity for a common form of big ticket medicine, which reduces costs overall. If you have migraines in Canada, you'll likely end up getting an MRI at some point, and you might wait six months to get it (though there are private options, and there are also ways to get in before your appointment like being ready on the cancellation list). For a lot of things, MRIs are a medical convenience, not a necessity. When they're medically necessary, you get in within hours--my nephew got driven to the hospital with a head injury, and an MRI was the first thing they did. But if it's elective, you go on a waiting list, which might be short, but might be long. This is probably the most complained about aspect of Canadian health care, with some justice, but it's not obvious that eliminating all wait times with sufficient capacity for immediate access would yield better medical outcomes for the extra cost.

fatbird 9y ago

I live in Vancouver. BC #1? LOL. We're 9th in education spending in a country with 10 provinces.