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> It is the "Do you think it is fair that people with preexisting conditions pay higher insurance premiums?" poll questions that would actually lead to a law th

> It is the "Do you think it is fair that people with preexisting conditions pay higher insurance premiums?" poll questions that would actually lead to a law that is a better representation of the beliefs of the American people. Even this is incredibly leading. It presumes that: * All preexisting conditions are equivalent, despite the fact that some are truly out of the person's control and others are the direct result of one's known actions * A lack of fairness implies it should be corrected * That correction should be done by legislation * That legislation should be at the federal level * The things that would need to be done as part of insuring people with preexisting conditions aren't relevant The "belief" of the American people that "it's not fair" is pointless. It can only be resolved with policy, and if that policy is disliked, it's intellectually dishonest to hide behind individual portions of the bill being popular out of context.

saghm 9y ago
"Nobody knew healthcare could be this complicated"
slg 9y ago
I'm not going to quibble over the exact wording I chose for my off the cuff example, but I will concede I could have phrased it better. >It can only be resolved with policy, and if that policy is disliked, it's intellectually dishonest to hide behind individual portions of the bill being popular out of context. But that is exactly my point. It isn't the policy that is disliked, it is the name. Many individual portions of the policy are liked. Those portions have to be paired with less favorable portions in order to create a functional law. Overall that collection of policies is generally liked. However if you throw the "Obamacare" label on it the popularity of the bill decreases compared to the same policies labeled as "The Affordable Care Act". The label is enough to cloud the the public's true feelings on the policy. Knowing the clouded opinions might help someone get elected but it isn't going to help them write a new healthcare bill that represents the will of the people.
- moduspol 9y ago
  > But that is exactly my point. It isn't the policy that is disliked, it is the name. It is the policy that is disliked. If you ask them how much they like higher premiums, they will tell you. You can't just ask about the positive goals and pretend that means they like it. The policy is the entire package, and it includes both. > However if you throw the "Obamacare" label on it the popularity of the bill decreases compared to the same policies labeled as "The Affordable Care Act". The label is enough to cloud the the public's true feelings on the policy. Obamacare is not a derogatory name. It's what it was called all throughout the debate and afterward by the news media and politicians. That some people react less negatively to a name that's less well-known and less widely-used doesn't justify what you're claiming. > Knowing the clouded opinions might help someone get elected but it isn't going to help them write a new healthcare bill that represents the will of the people. These aren't clouded opinions. They're reactions to actual liberal policy in action, and they're not positive. We don't need more affirming of things we already know. What is needed is some retrospection on what happens when tens of thousands of pages of legislation is passed because people like a few bullet points of it when taken out of context.
  - croon 9y ago
    > It is the policy that is disliked. If you ask them how much they like higher premiums, they will tell you. You can't just ask about the positive goals and pretend that means they like it. The policy is the entire package, and it includes both. If that was true the reaction would be the same to Obamacare and ACA, which it isn't.
    - moduspol 9y ago
      If it were called Obamacare and ACA in the news media and politics equally, then yes. ...but that wasn't the case. You can't just ask them questions about a less popular name and expect less-informed people to know it's the same thing. Likewise, renaming it something else may even gain you even fewer unfavorables. Wow, they must really like the "Affordable Healthcare and America is the Best Act." Nevermind that it's the same as Obamacare--but that name does sound better and people aren't sure it's the same thing, so it'll poll better. ...or maybe if they're the same thing, it's most reasonable to just call it what it's called most often. That won't give you the answer you want, though.
s73ver 9y ago
"The "belief" of the American people that "it's not fair" is pointless. It can only be resolved with policy, and if that policy is disliked, it's intellectually dishonest to hide behind individual portions of the bill being popular out of context." I disagree. I think it's intellectually dishonest to claim that a policy is unpopular when the provisions of it actually are popular. And I think it really is telling that so many people claim to dislike the ACA, yet really like the provisions of it.

saghm 9y ago

"Nobody knew healthcare could be this complicated"

slg 9y ago

I'm not going to quibble over the exact wording I chose for my off the cuff example, but I will concede I could have phrased it better. >It can only be resolved with policy, and if that policy is disliked, it's intellectually dishonest to hide behind individual portions of the bill being popular out of context. But that is exactly my point. It isn't the policy that is disliked, it is the name. Many individual portions of the policy are liked. Those portions have to be paired with less favorable portions in order to create a functional law. Overall that collection of policies is generally liked. However if you throw the "Obamacare" label on it the popularity of the bill decreases compared to the same policies labeled as "The Affordable Care Act". The label is enough to cloud the the public's true feelings on the policy. Knowing the clouded opinions might help someone get elected but it isn't going to help them write a new healthcare bill that represents the will of the people.

moduspol 9y ago
> But that is exactly my point. It isn't the policy that is disliked, it is the name. It is the policy that is disliked. If you ask them how much they like higher premiums, they will tell you. You can't just ask about the positive goals and pretend that means they like it. The policy is the entire package, and it includes both. > However if you throw the "Obamacare" label on it the popularity of the bill decreases compared to the same policies labeled as "The Affordable Care Act". The label is enough to cloud the the public's true feelings on the policy. Obamacare is not a derogatory name. It's what it was called all throughout the debate and afterward by the news media and politicians. That some people react less negatively to a name that's less well-known and less widely-used doesn't justify what you're claiming. > Knowing the clouded opinions might help someone get elected but it isn't going to help them write a new healthcare bill that represents the will of the people. These aren't clouded opinions. They're reactions to actual liberal policy in action, and they're not positive. We don't need more affirming of things we already know. What is needed is some retrospection on what happens when tens of thousands of pages of legislation is passed because people like a few bullet points of it when taken out of context.
- croon 9y ago
  > It is the policy that is disliked. If you ask them how much they like higher premiums, they will tell you. You can't just ask about the positive goals and pretend that means they like it. The policy is the entire package, and it includes both. If that was true the reaction would be the same to Obamacare and ACA, which it isn't.
  - moduspol 9y ago
    If it were called Obamacare and ACA in the news media and politics equally, then yes. ...but that wasn't the case. You can't just ask them questions about a less popular name and expect less-informed people to know it's the same thing. Likewise, renaming it something else may even gain you even fewer unfavorables. Wow, they must really like the "Affordable Healthcare and America is the Best Act." Nevermind that it's the same as Obamacare--but that name does sound better and people aren't sure it's the same thing, so it'll poll better. ...or maybe if they're the same thing, it's most reasonable to just call it what it's called most often. That won't give you the answer you want, though.

s73ver 9y ago

"The "belief" of the American people that "it's not fair" is pointless. It can only be resolved with policy, and if that policy is disliked, it's intellectually dishonest to hide behind individual portions of the bill being popular out of context." I disagree. I think it's intellectually dishonest to claim that a policy is unpopular when the provisions of it actually are popular. And I think it really is telling that so many people claim to dislike the ACA, yet really like the provisions of it.