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FWIW, I'd try to avoid demonizing the ex-wife in this scenario (not that you are). I've followed her blog off and on during the proceedings, and honestly, her

FWIW, I'd try to avoid demonizing the ex-wife in this scenario (not that you are). I've followed her blog off and on during the proceedings, and honestly, her demands don't seem terribly unreasonable: "The irony of this whole thing is that I don't want hundreds of millions of dollars. I think my ex-husband is brilliant and works like a demon and deserves his success and his wealth. But I also think -- after eight years of marriage and six kids (five surviving) -- that I am entitled to a fair settlement..." http://moschus.livejournal.com/140502.html http://moschus.livejournal.com/140502.html She's probably asking for somewhere between 5 and 10% of their combined assets, near as I can tell. I think the bigger issue in the divorce is one of pride, in that Elon doesn't want to give up any shares in the companies he's built... it's more than just money to him. /back to work

philk 16y ago
The thing is, 5-10% of their shared assets works out to over a hundred million dollars [1] if you include the slices of his companies that she's asking for. So while she couches her request in reasonable language she's actually asking for (IMHO) an unreasonable amount of wealth given she didn't create it in the first place. [1] Which is over forty times the lifetime earnings of the average American simply for marrying well.
- mehtastic 16y ago
  given she didn't create it in the first place. simply for marrying well. You make me fucking sick. What right do you have to make judgments on how their relationship affected his success? What the fuck right do you have to spew that horseshit and claim she was of no value? You fucking disgust me.
- muskrat 16y ago
  an unreasonable amount of wealth given she didn't create it in the first place. You're making a lot of really, really vile and baseless accusations in your post. A great personal relationship can help somebody soar to higher professional heights, and a lousy one can do the opposite. Given that you're not Elon or the wife, you're in no position to comment on the value of her efforts, conversations and actions. You really don't know what she brought to the table. Just because she didn't have a CxO title doesn't mean she didn't help create value. simply for marrying well. A wife is not just a decoration. A great wife can help you be a better person in a multitude of ways, and can help breed success. The idea that the only thing she did was marry him... it's vile and repulsive. You have no idea what you're on about. I hope you find somebody who helps you breed success someday. It's clear that as it stands, you've never had a truly worthwhile personal relationship.
- _delirium 16y ago
  It's questionable whether she had no role in creating the money he made while they were married; marriage is usually a bit of a partnership, with a lot of mutual support. You can allege that he would've been just as successful if he hadn't been married during that period, but that's a hard counterfactual to prove, and depends essentially on arguing that his marriage, having kids, etc. provided no support at all that in any way contributed to his success during that period. And if you're going to indulge in those kinds of counterfactuals, then maybe he doesn't deserve his money either, because hey, maybe if he wasn't at PayPal, someone else would've done just a good a job, so he only got his money by essentially having the luck to be "married" to PayPal? That's one reason that legally, money made while married is assumed to be evenly split, absent a separate agreement. I don't have any particular insight into his situation, but if, say, my parents had gotten divorced when I was a kid, I would've considered it fair if they split the money evenly, even though my dad officially made all of it. Plus, if you put it the other way, he's keeping 90-95% of their shared wealth, over a billion dollars, and yet is unhappy with that, because he wants more? It doesn't sound like it has anything to do with control over his companies, either; the amount of stock she's asking for wouldn't affect controlling stakes at all. Seems like it's purely the money: either it's just greed (he has a ton, but wants even more), or some variety of spite (he doesn't care about the money, but doesn't want his ex-wife to get it).
  - jcnnghm 16y ago
    It's questionable whether she had no role in creating the money he made while they were married; marriage is usually a bit of a partnership, with a lot of mutual support. You can allege that he would've been just as successful if he hadn't been married during that period, but that's a hard counterfactual to prove, and depends essentially on arguing that his marriage, having kids, etc. provided no support at all that in any way contributed to his success during that period. And if you're going to indulge in those kinds of counterfactuals, then maybe he doesn't deserve his money either, because hey, maybe if he wasn't at PayPal, someone else would've done just a good a job, so he only got his money by essentially having the luck to be "married" to PayPal? You might be able to make that argument if he hadn't already founded a company and sold it for over $300M before he married her. Paypal itself had already been founded and was well under way before they married. It's disingenuous at best to ascribe any of his success to her. That's one reason that legally, money made while married is assumed to be evenly split, absent a separate agreement. I don't have any particular insight into his situation, but if, say, my parents had gotten divorced when I was a kid, I would've considered it fair if they split the money evenly, even though my dad officially made all of it. That is a holdover from when women didn't work, which is why it makes sense with respect to your parents. Plus, if you put it the other way, he's keeping 90-95% of their shared wealth, over a billion dollars, and yet is unhappy with that, because he wants more? It doesn't sound like it has anything to do with control over his companies, either; the amount of stock she's asking for wouldn't affect controlling stakes at all. Seems like it's purely the money: either it's just greed (he has a ton, but wants even more), or some variety of spite (he doesn't care about the money, but doesn't want his ex-wife to get it). He's the one that worked for the money. What was her contribution, sex and moral support? That's the most expensive hooker in history. Seems that the best bet for successful men is to refuse to marry. Even if the wife signs a pre-nup, they can still keep the man in court for years to force a settlement. The real issue here is the duplicity of the womens lib movement. It's fair, equal, and all that jazz until it hurts women financially. Some time ago, a girl asked me to go to dinner with her, and while we were there, she spent a great deal of time telling me all about her political views, especially about women's rights. Of course, when the bill comes, she pushes it over to me. We're equal, women deserve everything the same as men, etc., until the bill comes, then it's "you should buy me dinner because I'm a pretty girl and you're supposed to." I'd have bought dinner anyway, but don't lecture me if it's all just bullshit. Same situation here.
- kaib 16y ago
  > an unreasonable amount of wealth given she didn't create it in the first place Western society at large believes that domestic life plays a very significant role in the process of creating wealth which is why most jurisdictions award an equal split of property at the time of divorce. In this particular case they have five sons together and it seems like they met before most of Mr. Musk's ventures were started. There is a lot more effort to a decade or more of supporting a fledging entrepreneur and raising five sons than just marrying well.
pavs 16y ago
Man this is such an ugly situation to otherwise successful and (seemingly) nice people. Almost scares you to never get married or have children. Actually not only this case, whenever I see high profile divorce cases, I get baffled at divorced couple fighting over millions of dollars, when they are already millions of dollars rich and will maintain a comfortable life for the rest of their life with their current wealth. I guess I make the assumption that rich people are rational, or maybe they are rich because they are not (always) rational when it comes to money? I like to think that Elon Musk is not in it for the money, and it seems like so from his actions. He seem to take money from one success story so that he can invest in his dream goals of making the world a better place. Money is just a by product of his actions. On the other hand, reading some of his wife blog post gives me the impression that she seems like an OK person and not generally spiteful or vindictive. Utterly confused and scared of getting married.
- pyre 16y ago
  > Utterly confused and scared of getting married. Might as well just say 'scared of interacting with people.' Any sort of relationship can go bad. Partnerships, marriages, business agreements, etc.
- cookiecaper 16y ago
  There's no point in being scared to get married. Being married is awesome. Some people divorce, and some people don't. If you're that worried about the money part of it, sign a pre-nup, even if you don't have anything. You can't control people. You can't even control your spouse. That's just how things are, and you have to let them go. You can't go on scared of doing things; anything could happen at any time, but we can't close ourselves off from it. None of us know the personal details of their relationship. Maybe one side or the other has some good cause for this. Maybe it's mutual and there's just some dispute about the split of assets; that can happen, disputes are pretty normal, and when you have tons of money and are paying for super-high-priced lawyers, things can definitely drag out. Don't be scared by this stuff. Just do your best and keep on living. That's all the control anyone gets in this life.
  - 16y ago
philwelch 16y ago
Did you see this post? http://moschus.livejournal.com/141570.html http://moschus.livejournal.com/141570.html As we discussed around here (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1405512 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1405512) her blogging seems to stink of narcissism and entitlement.

philk 16y ago

The thing is, 5-10% of their shared assets works out to over a hundred million dollars [1] if you include the slices of his companies that she's asking for. So while she couches her request in reasonable language she's actually asking for (IMHO) an unreasonable amount of wealth given she didn't create it in the first place. [1] Which is over forty times the lifetime earnings of the average American simply for marrying well.

mehtastic 16y ago
given she didn't create it in the first place. simply for marrying well. You make me fucking sick. What right do you have to make judgments on how their relationship affected his success? What the fuck right do you have to spew that horseshit and claim she was of no value? You fucking disgust me.
muskrat 16y ago
an unreasonable amount of wealth given she didn't create it in the first place. You're making a lot of really, really vile and baseless accusations in your post. A great personal relationship can help somebody soar to higher professional heights, and a lousy one can do the opposite. Given that you're not Elon or the wife, you're in no position to comment on the value of her efforts, conversations and actions. You really don't know what she brought to the table. Just because she didn't have a CxO title doesn't mean she didn't help create value. simply for marrying well. A wife is not just a decoration. A great wife can help you be a better person in a multitude of ways, and can help breed success. The idea that the only thing she did was marry him... it's vile and repulsive. You have no idea what you're on about. I hope you find somebody who helps you breed success someday. It's clear that as it stands, you've never had a truly worthwhile personal relationship.
_delirium 16y ago
It's questionable whether she had no role in creating the money he made while they were married; marriage is usually a bit of a partnership, with a lot of mutual support. You can allege that he would've been just as successful if he hadn't been married during that period, but that's a hard counterfactual to prove, and depends essentially on arguing that his marriage, having kids, etc. provided no support at all that in any way contributed to his success during that period. And if you're going to indulge in those kinds of counterfactuals, then maybe he doesn't deserve his money either, because hey, maybe if he wasn't at PayPal, someone else would've done just a good a job, so he only got his money by essentially having the luck to be "married" to PayPal? That's one reason that legally, money made while married is assumed to be evenly split, absent a separate agreement. I don't have any particular insight into his situation, but if, say, my parents had gotten divorced when I was a kid, I would've considered it fair if they split the money evenly, even though my dad officially made all of it. Plus, if you put it the other way, he's keeping 90-95% of their shared wealth, over a billion dollars, and yet is unhappy with that, because he wants more? It doesn't sound like it has anything to do with control over his companies, either; the amount of stock she's asking for wouldn't affect controlling stakes at all. Seems like it's purely the money: either it's just greed (he has a ton, but wants even more), or some variety of spite (he doesn't care about the money, but doesn't want his ex-wife to get it).
- jcnnghm 16y ago
  It's questionable whether she had no role in creating the money he made while they were married; marriage is usually a bit of a partnership, with a lot of mutual support. You can allege that he would've been just as successful if he hadn't been married during that period, but that's a hard counterfactual to prove, and depends essentially on arguing that his marriage, having kids, etc. provided no support at all that in any way contributed to his success during that period. And if you're going to indulge in those kinds of counterfactuals, then maybe he doesn't deserve his money either, because hey, maybe if he wasn't at PayPal, someone else would've done just a good a job, so he only got his money by essentially having the luck to be "married" to PayPal? You might be able to make that argument if he hadn't already founded a company and sold it for over $300M before he married her. Paypal itself had already been founded and was well under way before they married. It's disingenuous at best to ascribe any of his success to her. That's one reason that legally, money made while married is assumed to be evenly split, absent a separate agreement. I don't have any particular insight into his situation, but if, say, my parents had gotten divorced when I was a kid, I would've considered it fair if they split the money evenly, even though my dad officially made all of it. That is a holdover from when women didn't work, which is why it makes sense with respect to your parents. Plus, if you put it the other way, he's keeping 90-95% of their shared wealth, over a billion dollars, and yet is unhappy with that, because he wants more? It doesn't sound like it has anything to do with control over his companies, either; the amount of stock she's asking for wouldn't affect controlling stakes at all. Seems like it's purely the money: either it's just greed (he has a ton, but wants even more), or some variety of spite (he doesn't care about the money, but doesn't want his ex-wife to get it). He's the one that worked for the money. What was her contribution, sex and moral support? That's the most expensive hooker in history. Seems that the best bet for successful men is to refuse to marry. Even if the wife signs a pre-nup, they can still keep the man in court for years to force a settlement. The real issue here is the duplicity of the womens lib movement. It's fair, equal, and all that jazz until it hurts women financially. Some time ago, a girl asked me to go to dinner with her, and while we were there, she spent a great deal of time telling me all about her political views, especially about women's rights. Of course, when the bill comes, she pushes it over to me. We're equal, women deserve everything the same as men, etc., until the bill comes, then it's "you should buy me dinner because I'm a pretty girl and you're supposed to." I'd have bought dinner anyway, but don't lecture me if it's all just bullshit. Same situation here.
kaib 16y ago
> an unreasonable amount of wealth given she didn't create it in the first place Western society at large believes that domestic life plays a very significant role in the process of creating wealth which is why most jurisdictions award an equal split of property at the time of divorce. In this particular case they have five sons together and it seems like they met before most of Mr. Musk's ventures were started. There is a lot more effort to a decade or more of supporting a fledging entrepreneur and raising five sons than just marrying well.

pavs 16y ago

Man this is such an ugly situation to otherwise successful and (seemingly) nice people. Almost scares you to never get married or have children. Actually not only this case, whenever I see high profile divorce cases, I get baffled at divorced couple fighting over millions of dollars, when they are already millions of dollars rich and will maintain a comfortable life for the rest of their life with their current wealth. I guess I make the assumption that rich people are rational, or maybe they are rich because they are not (always) rational when it comes to money? I like to think that Elon Musk is not in it for the money, and it seems like so from his actions. He seem to take money from one success story so that he can invest in his dream goals of making the world a better place. Money is just a by product of his actions. On the other hand, reading some of his wife blog post gives me the impression that she seems like an OK person and not generally spiteful or vindictive. Utterly confused and scared of getting married.

pyre 16y ago
> Utterly confused and scared of getting married. Might as well just say 'scared of interacting with people.' Any sort of relationship can go bad. Partnerships, marriages, business agreements, etc.
cookiecaper 16y ago
There's no point in being scared to get married. Being married is awesome. Some people divorce, and some people don't. If you're that worried about the money part of it, sign a pre-nup, even if you don't have anything. You can't control people. You can't even control your spouse. That's just how things are, and you have to let them go. You can't go on scared of doing things; anything could happen at any time, but we can't close ourselves off from it. None of us know the personal details of their relationship. Maybe one side or the other has some good cause for this. Maybe it's mutual and there's just some dispute about the split of assets; that can happen, disputes are pretty normal, and when you have tons of money and are paying for super-high-priced lawyers, things can definitely drag out. Don't be scared by this stuff. Just do your best and keep on living. That's all the control anyone gets in this life.
- 16y ago

philwelch 16y ago

Did you see this post? http://moschus.livejournal.com/141570.html http://moschus.livejournal.com/141570.html As we discussed around here (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1405512 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1405512) her blogging seems to stink of narcissism and entitlement.