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The thing is that some SDK functions are dependent on those apps and thus need to exist somehow. Because a third-party app can use the SDK to send an email from

The thing is that some SDK functions are dependent on those apps and thus need to exist somehow. Because a third-party app can use the SDK to send an email from inside the app, Mail needs to be around. Same thing with Maps, Safari, Photos… (and of course, the App Store) On the other hand, you're correct, Stocks, Weather, Calculator, etc. are completely independent, thus could be deleted without causing trouble, but I wouldn't be surprised if the decision went down to the simplest one (at least for now): no default app gets deleted, period. If you don't like having the extra system apps, (I don't for some of them), to quote Steve Jobs on an unrelated topic: "not that big of a deal".

kenjackson 16y ago
You can have the API's without having the apps. This is what MS had to do with IE, for example.
- Timothee 16y ago
  Of course they could be separated. What I'm saying is that considering that some of the apps are not completely sandboxed, the simplest decision to make is to just keep all of them. Plus, it helps Apple's branding: as long as they're not forced into separating the apps and the APIs, like Microsoft was, they won't.
commandar 16y ago
This demonstrates exactly why Gruber completely misses the point every time he tries to nitpick the Android team's statements about not using private APIs. While Gruber wants to make it about hollow point scoring, what the Android guys are getting at is that they've made a conscious design decision to have a clear distinction between what is system level and what is application level specifically to avoid getting stuck in this sort of situation. Yes, your Android phone has apps you probably can't uninstall, but that's a distribution decision rather than something that was forced on them by technical limitation.
- sandGorgon 16y ago
  http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/29/exclusive-android-froyo-to-take-a-serious-shot-at-stemming-plat/ http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/29/exclusive-android-froyo-t... Android Froyo onwards, a lot of system apps are going to be downloadable separately, just so that you dont have to wait for your service provider to build an OTA update for you.
  - commandar 16y ago
    Well, like Engadget mentions, they'd already broken Maps out like that a while back. The entire reason they can do this is because they've kept their first-party apps out of the system level and exposed the functionality they need publicly. The official Facebook and Twitter apps integrate with system contacts, for example, not because Google integrated them at the system level, but because Google provided an API to allow this with the Android 2.0 release. One of the things that continually impresses me about Android is the fact that Google took so much care to create a clean architecture that opens up the door to a lot of cool opportunities for any application developer.

kenjackson 16y ago

You can have the API's without having the apps. This is what MS had to do with IE, for example.

Timothee 16y ago
Of course they could be separated. What I'm saying is that considering that some of the apps are not completely sandboxed, the simplest decision to make is to just keep all of them. Plus, it helps Apple's branding: as long as they're not forced into separating the apps and the APIs, like Microsoft was, they won't.

commandar 16y ago

This demonstrates exactly why Gruber completely misses the point every time he tries to nitpick the Android team's statements about not using private APIs. While Gruber wants to make it about hollow point scoring, what the Android guys are getting at is that they've made a conscious design decision to have a clear distinction between what is system level and what is application level specifically to avoid getting stuck in this sort of situation. Yes, your Android phone has apps you probably can't uninstall, but that's a distribution decision rather than something that was forced on them by technical limitation.

sandGorgon 16y ago
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/29/exclusive-android-froyo-to-take-a-serious-shot-at-stemming-plat/ http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/29/exclusive-android-froyo-t... Android Froyo onwards, a lot of system apps are going to be downloadable separately, just so that you dont have to wait for your service provider to build an OTA update for you.
- commandar 16y ago
  Well, like Engadget mentions, they'd already broken Maps out like that a while back. The entire reason they can do this is because they've kept their first-party apps out of the system level and exposed the functionality they need publicly. The official Facebook and Twitter apps integrate with system contacts, for example, not because Google integrated them at the system level, but because Google provided an API to allow this with the Android 2.0 release. One of the things that continually impresses me about Android is the fact that Google took so much care to create a clean architecture that opens up the door to a lot of cool opportunities for any application developer.