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What kinds of projects is this best suited for? Cross-platform GUIs? Web servers? Data processing and numerical computing? Where does Pharo shine, at least in

by xiaoma 9y ago

What kinds of projects is this best suited for? Cross-platform GUIs? Web servers? Data processing and numerical computing? Where does Pharo shine, at least in the eyes of those who use it?

vram22 9y ago
Yes, I'm interested in knowing that too. Smalltalk was used a lot for GUIs originally, I've read. So maybe GUIs are one of the target areas now too.
tunaoftheland 9y ago
I want to know this too! When I poked around before, I got the impression that it would be good for writing apps that need sophisticated logic, as the language and the platform is very flexible. I think I came across several Pharo tools for source code analysis and using them also seemed to leverage SmallTalk's flexibility and exploratory capabilities. I had briefly considered it to use it as a cross-platform desktop RAD platform, but its integration story was pretty weak. Things like connecting to PostgreSQL could be done, but only using an older protocol. Serialization formats like ProtoBuf were not available. The GUI framework was not easy to parse (for me), though there were inklings of work on easy-to use, high-level GUI builders. I left with an impression that it was for people smarter than me, though I'd still like to learn it! BTW, I had heard that software for seaport dock management used to be dominated by SmallTalk. Not how things are now. (Edited to fix the worst of the grammar errors)
philippeback 9y ago
It shines when one puts the tools together. e.g. Roassal + GTInspector + PetitParser can do a ton. Coupled with Zinc (HTTP Client + Server) and XMLPullParser, data can be brought in easily. One key thing here is that there is much less accidental complexity that on other platforms when coding. The continuum between coding/running/debugging/understanding is really sweet. It is more of an experience of making progress in much less time than on other platforms. I have been coding on quite a number of other stacks but Pharo is really giving more to my soul, so to speak. Also, the whole thing is MIT and no big corp owns any of it. So, we shape our own future. The community is smaller but really inspiring and it all made me a much better dev. And it makes my thinking cleaner. Not a small feat.
- xiaoma 9y ago
  Tell me about the things it's good at making. If those aren't a match, I don't care about any of the points above! I accept that you enjoy using Pharo. What is the output of that time enjoyably spent? What product does Pharo have the largest relative advantage in creating?
  - philippeback 9y ago
    I did this one a while ago. http://pharo.org/success/CableExpertise http://pharo.org/success/CableExpertise So is is good for doing some web application dealing with lots of devices. Have a Jira client for doing lots of Jira automation using the REST API, along with a bunch of goodies etc. Pharo was quite practical to deal with that. Am finishing up an XMPP client, and writing callbacks for dealing with XEPs etc is a dream in a live environment like Pharo. Expect more there soon. Compared to other things I did with say Java or .NET, they all take longer and are more convoluted. I used to be a Java full time dev/tech lead/architect for years. I am still doing Hadoop stuff but it all feels like there is always an annoying ton of accidental complexity in the Java/.Net camp. Check http://pharo.org/success/Quuve http://pharo.org/success/Quuve for a rationale about picking Pharo instead of Python.

by xiaoma 9y ago

What kinds of projects is this best suited for? Cross-platform GUIs? Web servers? Data processing and numerical computing? Where does Pharo shine, at least in the eyes of those who use it?

vram22 9y ago

Yes, I'm interested in knowing that too. Smalltalk was used a lot for GUIs originally, I've read. So maybe GUIs are one of the target areas now too.

tunaoftheland 9y ago

I want to know this too! When I poked around before, I got the impression that it would be good for writing apps that need sophisticated logic, as the language and the platform is very flexible. I think I came across several Pharo tools for source code analysis and using them also seemed to leverage SmallTalk's flexibility and exploratory capabilities. I had briefly considered it to use it as a cross-platform desktop RAD platform, but its integration story was pretty weak. Things like connecting to PostgreSQL could be done, but only using an older protocol. Serialization formats like ProtoBuf were not available. The GUI framework was not easy to parse (for me), though there were inklings of work on easy-to use, high-level GUI builders. I left with an impression that it was for people smarter than me, though I'd still like to learn it! BTW, I had heard that software for seaport dock management used to be dominated by SmallTalk. Not how things are now. (Edited to fix the worst of the grammar errors)

philippeback 9y ago

It shines when one puts the tools together. e.g. Roassal + GTInspector + PetitParser can do a ton. Coupled with Zinc (HTTP Client + Server) and XMLPullParser, data can be brought in easily. One key thing here is that there is much less accidental complexity that on other platforms when coding. The continuum between coding/running/debugging/understanding is really sweet. It is more of an experience of making progress in much less time than on other platforms. I have been coding on quite a number of other stacks but Pharo is really giving more to my soul, so to speak. Also, the whole thing is MIT and no big corp owns any of it. So, we shape our own future. The community is smaller but really inspiring and it all made me a much better dev. And it makes my thinking cleaner. Not a small feat.

xiaoma 9y ago
Tell me about the things it's good at making. If those aren't a match, I don't care about any of the points above! I accept that you enjoy using Pharo. What is the output of that time enjoyably spent? What product does Pharo have the largest relative advantage in creating?
- philippeback 9y ago
  I did this one a while ago. http://pharo.org/success/CableExpertise http://pharo.org/success/CableExpertise So is is good for doing some web application dealing with lots of devices. Have a Jira client for doing lots of Jira automation using the REST API, along with a bunch of goodies etc. Pharo was quite practical to deal with that. Am finishing up an XMPP client, and writing callbacks for dealing with XEPs etc is a dream in a live environment like Pharo. Expect more there soon. Compared to other things I did with say Java or .NET, they all take longer and are more convoluted. I used to be a Java full time dev/tech lead/architect for years. I am still doing Hadoop stuff but it all feels like there is always an annoying ton of accidental complexity in the Java/.Net camp. Check http://pharo.org/success/Quuve http://pharo.org/success/Quuve for a rationale about picking Pharo instead of Python.