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I remember a sociologist once remarking that prejudice (racism in the case we were discussing) exists quite apart from an individual's intentions. Most of the

I remember a sociologist once remarking that prejudice (racism in the case we were discussing) exists quite apart from an individual's intentions. Most of the comments here appear to assume that prejudice is determined solely (or mainly) by the moderator's intentions-- hence the endless quests to somehow prove what is or isn't lurking in the moderator's soul. That seems irrelevant in this case, but I haven't read the relevant sociological literature so that's all I can say. Are there any sociologists here that can flesh this out (with citations)? Edit: clarification

collyw 9y ago
Is there anything that gives this socialogist any more credibility than me if I claimed the opposite?
jccalhoun 9y ago
I''m not a sociologist. My phd minor was Anthro and I don't have any citations handy. But basically you can never know someone's intention with 100% certainty. There is always the possibility that someone has different intentions than you think they are or that they say they have. Even if it is someone you know very well and trust there is the possibility that you are in some sort of Truman Show where everyone you know has been lying to you your whole life. Or, if we want to get into psychology, there is the possibility that a person could think their intentions are really one thing but subconsciously they might be something else. So if we can't depend on knowing someone's intentions then we only have the act itself and its impact. Of course, this opens up a deep rabbit hole in that we can't trust anyone's intentions, including the person that wrote this facebook post. Or mine for leaving this comment...
- jancsika 9y ago
  I shouldn't have put "citations" in parentheses. That's what I'm most interested in-- recommended readings from people who study this stuff for a living.
  - jccalhoun 9y ago
    Off the top of my head I'm not thinking of anything specific but it is related to the intentional fallacy and thinking along the lines of The Death of the Author as well as more anthro/socio stuff by people like Erving Goffman. I'm thinking of his Presentation of Self in Everyday Life where he talks about things in terms of acting and live theater.
    - jancsika 9y ago
      Thanks, jccalhoun. I'm really looking for a citation of something much more fundamental. If I wanted to assess the security of Firefox, it would be inane to try to do so by assessing each bug individually. Instead, I could ask on HN, "What books should I read to begin learning how to assess the security of Firefox?" And even though I'd probably get a lot of responses trying to clarify what I mean by "security", I'd certainly get some solid reference materials that outline current approaches to assessing security that are based on the best research available. Now suppose I want to assess sexism in the sciences in academia. It would be inane to try to do so by assessing each alleged case of sexism individually. What books should I read to assess sexism in academia? I'd like to hear about reference books (or articles) that outline current approaches to assessing sexism in academia that are based on the best research available.
BearGoesChirp 9y ago
>sociologist You mean those who have redefined words to push certain agendas that have cost their entire field a great deal of credibility in the minds of many?

collyw 9y ago

Is there anything that gives this socialogist any more credibility than me if I claimed the opposite?

jccalhoun 9y ago

I''m not a sociologist. My phd minor was Anthro and I don't have any citations handy. But basically you can never know someone's intention with 100% certainty. There is always the possibility that someone has different intentions than you think they are or that they say they have. Even if it is someone you know very well and trust there is the possibility that you are in some sort of Truman Show where everyone you know has been lying to you your whole life. Or, if we want to get into psychology, there is the possibility that a person could think their intentions are really one thing but subconsciously they might be something else. So if we can't depend on knowing someone's intentions then we only have the act itself and its impact. Of course, this opens up a deep rabbit hole in that we can't trust anyone's intentions, including the person that wrote this facebook post. Or mine for leaving this comment...

jancsika 9y ago
I shouldn't have put "citations" in parentheses. That's what I'm most interested in-- recommended readings from people who study this stuff for a living.
- jccalhoun 9y ago
  Off the top of my head I'm not thinking of anything specific but it is related to the intentional fallacy and thinking along the lines of The Death of the Author as well as more anthro/socio stuff by people like Erving Goffman. I'm thinking of his Presentation of Self in Everyday Life where he talks about things in terms of acting and live theater.
  - jancsika 9y ago
    Thanks, jccalhoun. I'm really looking for a citation of something much more fundamental. If I wanted to assess the security of Firefox, it would be inane to try to do so by assessing each bug individually. Instead, I could ask on HN, "What books should I read to begin learning how to assess the security of Firefox?" And even though I'd probably get a lot of responses trying to clarify what I mean by "security", I'd certainly get some solid reference materials that outline current approaches to assessing security that are based on the best research available. Now suppose I want to assess sexism in the sciences in academia. It would be inane to try to do so by assessing each alleged case of sexism individually. What books should I read to assess sexism in academia? I'd like to hear about reference books (or articles) that outline current approaches to assessing sexism in academia that are based on the best research available.

BearGoesChirp 9y ago

>sociologist You mean those who have redefined words to push certain agendas that have cost their entire field a great deal of credibility in the minds of many?