7 ms·

What's really interesting is that every time sexism comes up there are volunteers eager to show it isn't sexism.

obstacle1 9y ago
It's almost like people are growing increasingly sick of being marginalized by identity politicians co-opting issues that really effect everyone. There needs to be a better strategy than "take a widespread social issue and pretend it only affects a subset of the population and only solve the issue for said subset" for producing legitimate social change, else pushback.
4bpp 9y ago
Sure it's interesting in a certain sense, but is it problematic? The whole point of these sorts of incidents being publicised is to make an argument that men in STEM as a group treat women in STEM as a group unfairly and therefore intervention to improve the lot of the latter at the expense of the former is an ethical necessity. To insinuate, as you seem to be doing, that members of the former group stepping up to contest the case against them is further evidence of its validity is downright kafkaesque.
andrepd 9y ago
Maybe you would like to address the substance of the comment, otherwise your only argument is "you are arguing and you shouldn't".
- throwaway91111 9y ago
  Substance? What does the comment bring up worth discussing? It's not clear the comment has any empathy for anyone involved but the asshole. What value could anyone gain from the comment? The game of "is it bigotry or just a terrible person" is never a fun game and leaves everyone bitter. One day it'll be nice to look at grey area and have the discussion center around what i'm looking at, rather than the fact it's grey. Finally, this particular problem—interrupting—tends to be a major issue for SV. It may not always be sexist, but i do think women experience this disproportionately. The above comment managed to avoid any recognition of this.
  - andrepd 9y ago
    The comment does make a point of substance. It argues that talking over other people isn't a symptom of sexism, and cites as evidence the fact than man and women alike are talked over by more confident extroverts, and thus that it is yes a problem but no not stemming from sexism. What it does not make is a point of substance with which you agree, or rather, which does not immediately stroke your pre-existing conceptions. The fact that in your mind this is immediately equated with "lack of substance" is deeply troubling, especially because I fear it's becoming an increasingly common way to think. If I may I would suggest that you consider the theses and arguments presented by others at face value and consider them logically and rationally for what they are, and to do it before you analyse them in the framework of your pre-existing beliefs.
  - obstacle1 9y ago
    > i do think women experience this disproportionately. The above comment managed to avoid any recognition of this. Why would I recognize something that isn't an established fact, but your personal belief? That isn't reasoned debate, it's you wanting us to pander to your narcissism.
tomp 9y ago
Alternatively, every time a a man is rude to a woman, there are volunteers eager to show it's sexism.
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It's almost like people are growing increasingly sick of being marginalized by identity politicians co-opting issues that really effect everyone. There needs to be a better strategy than "take a widespread social issue and pretend it only affects a subset of the population and only solve the issue for said subset" for producing legitimate social change, else pushback.

4bpp 9y ago

Sure it's interesting in a certain sense, but is it problematic? The whole point of these sorts of incidents being publicised is to make an argument that men in STEM as a group treat women in STEM as a group unfairly and therefore intervention to improve the lot of the latter at the expense of the former is an ethical necessity. To insinuate, as you seem to be doing, that members of the former group stepping up to contest the case against them is further evidence of its validity is downright kafkaesque.

andrepd 9y ago

Maybe you would like to address the substance of the comment, otherwise your only argument is "you are arguing and you shouldn't".

throwaway91111 9y ago
Substance? What does the comment bring up worth discussing? It's not clear the comment has any empathy for anyone involved but the asshole. What value could anyone gain from the comment? The game of "is it bigotry or just a terrible person" is never a fun game and leaves everyone bitter. One day it'll be nice to look at grey area and have the discussion center around what i'm looking at, rather than the fact it's grey. Finally, this particular problem—interrupting—tends to be a major issue for SV. It may not always be sexist, but i do think women experience this disproportionately. The above comment managed to avoid any recognition of this.
- andrepd 9y ago
  The comment does make a point of substance. It argues that talking over other people isn't a symptom of sexism, and cites as evidence the fact than man and women alike are talked over by more confident extroverts, and thus that it is yes a problem but no not stemming from sexism. What it does not make is a point of substance with which you agree, or rather, which does not immediately stroke your pre-existing conceptions. The fact that in your mind this is immediately equated with "lack of substance" is deeply troubling, especially because I fear it's becoming an increasingly common way to think. If I may I would suggest that you consider the theses and arguments presented by others at face value and consider them logically and rationally for what they are, and to do it before you analyse them in the framework of your pre-existing beliefs.
- obstacle1 9y ago
  > i do think women experience this disproportionately. The above comment managed to avoid any recognition of this. Why would I recognize something that isn't an established fact, but your personal belief? That isn't reasoned debate, it's you wanting us to pander to your narcissism.

tomp 9y ago

Alternatively, every time a a man is rude to a woman, there are volunteers eager to show it's sexism.

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