7 ms·

The small minority of people may have a point, but it's the wrong point, since the real problem with the notation of electric charge has nothing to do with the

by teilo 16y ago

The small minority of people may have a point, but it's the wrong point, since the real problem with the notation of electric charge has nothing to do with the formulas which are used, but with the connotation that people give them of somehow representing a surplus or deficit of electrons, neither of which is true. The only real relationship between the charges is that they are opposite. The terms positive and negative have no other meaning. As for the formulas, either way will work just fine, as long as everyone is consistent. Pick something and stick with it.

Benjo 16y ago
Are you saying people confuse charged ions with flowing current in a circuit? My view of the problem is that it's hard to grasp what current actually is. The water in a pipe analogy works, but it's confusing because the electrons flow in the opposite direction of the hcurrent, making the "water" positively charged electron holes.
- sid0 16y ago
  > Are you saying people confuse charged ions with flowing current in a circuit? Charged ions moving in an electrolytic cell is charge flowing in a circuit. Electrons are not the only way to have a current.
- teilo 16y ago
  That's the thing. When we are talking about current, we are not talking about how many electrons are moving, but about the transfer of energy from one place to another. The water analogy just doesn't work, because while the current itself flows at nearly the speed of light, the electrons themselves move very slowly. In an AC current, the electrons don't flow at all. They vibrate. And in a liquid, the energy transfer can just as well be by means of anion flowing backwards, as cations flowing forward. Yet we think of the current as only flowing in one direction. You see the problem? Trying to think of electrical energy as a "flow of electrons" OR a "flow of protons" completely skews one's understanding of what is taking place.
sesqu 16y ago
somehow representing a surplus or deficit of electrons, neither of which is true. If an electric charge of -4e doesn't represent a surplus of 4 electrons, what does it represent? Surely not a deficit of 4 protons, since they are much harder to move around? Perhaps you feel it represents a transient property of matter that just so happens to be closely related to, but not defined by, the movement of elementary particles? That's a reasonable position to take, if you don't have to effect a charge.

by teilo 16y ago

Benjo 16y ago

Are you saying people confuse charged ions with flowing current in a circuit? My view of the problem is that it's hard to grasp what current actually is. The water in a pipe analogy works, but it's confusing because the electrons flow in the opposite direction of the hcurrent, making the "water" positively charged electron holes.

sid0 16y ago
> Are you saying people confuse charged ions with flowing current in a circuit? Charged ions moving in an electrolytic cell is charge flowing in a circuit. Electrons are not the only way to have a current.
teilo 16y ago
That's the thing. When we are talking about current, we are not talking about how many electrons are moving, but about the transfer of energy from one place to another. The water analogy just doesn't work, because while the current itself flows at nearly the speed of light, the electrons themselves move very slowly. In an AC current, the electrons don't flow at all. They vibrate. And in a liquid, the energy transfer can just as well be by means of anion flowing backwards, as cations flowing forward. Yet we think of the current as only flowing in one direction. You see the problem? Trying to think of electrical energy as a "flow of electrons" OR a "flow of protons" completely skews one's understanding of what is taking place.

sesqu 16y ago

somehow representing a surplus or deficit of electrons, neither of which is true. If an electric charge of -4e doesn't represent a surplus of 4 electrons, what does it represent? Surely not a deficit of 4 protons, since they are much harder to move around? Perhaps you feel it represents a transient property of matter that just so happens to be closely related to, but not defined by, the movement of elementary particles? That's a reasonable position to take, if you don't have to effect a charge.