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So what's the current situation with battery life on the Tesla and other full EV vehicles? I have a Prius (which uses NiMH, so not really the same but still) -

So what's the current situation with battery life on the Tesla and other full EV vehicles? I have a Prius (which uses NiMH, so not really the same but still) - some people have had the battery die under 100,000 miles, and others have everything still working fine at 300,000 miles. With the Prius it seems that concerns about battery life are rather unwarranted.

ProfessorLayton 9y ago
Currently Nissan Leafs can be bought here in the Bay for about 7k at under 50K miles, with 80%+ capacity on them. Depreciation on those things is crazy due to the tax subsidy, and the fact that better electric cars are coming to market. I'd consider getting one of those when prices tank even further thanks to the Model 3, and upcoming Lea,f to supplement my hybrid. Incidentally, I don't think battery life concerns are completely unwarranted - my hybrid's battery failed, and if it weren't for the extended emissions warranty in CA, I'd have been SOL. People seem to be aware of this, and it is evident in used hybrid prices, which many times cost about the same, and sometimes less that it's conventional counterpart. Due to its severe depreciation, I believe that if a Leaf's battery failed outside the warranty, the car is totalled.
- pyoung 9y ago
  That is crazy. I have been keeping my eye on the electric motorcycle/scooter market as well as on electric bicycles thinking that that could be a good way to support/enter the electric market. But good electric motorcycles are retailing at $15k+ and good electric bicycles can easily push into the $5k range. While I don't think I can personally benefit from a used Leaf (commute to work via bike, and use my SO's car for occasional weekend trips where range would be an issue), seems like at $7k it would be an absolute steal as a commuter car for a 2 car household, especially when you take into account savings on fuel. Battery concerns are certainly warranted, but used ICE cars in the $7k range aren't exactly risk free either.
- technofiend 9y ago
  I think that may also be a little bit buyer's remorse as people discover what exactly a sub-100 mile range means in practice. According to Wikipedia 80% charge implies a 66 mile range. However that's for a new battery, so you'll have to assume a further haircut as the battery ages since to baby the batteries you're supposed to only charge them to 80% of their remaining capacity, whatever it may be. My wife would normally be the ideal Leaf consumer - most of her jobs are no more than 10 miles from our house. But still that's 20 miles out of a pool of 66 before she a) turns on the air conditioner, b) runs any errands, c) runs into any traffic that delays her, and d) forgets to charge the car at home or finds the charger full at her grocery store. The Leaf comes with a contingency planning overhead cars with longer ranges do not and that has to factor into any future decisions; could my wife take a job say 20 miles from home? Maybe but any of the factors listed above could easily result in a dead battery tow. If I mapped that into my own use case even as an inner city dweller the short legs on the Leaf would preclude some practical applications I have now when a car with say 50 more miles of range would handily meet. If the Leaf ever gets to 150 miles new, which implies 120 mile range when new @ 80% charge and 96 miles when the battery has lost 20% of its capacity (also @ 80% charge) that would be workable for inner city driving with the air conditioning on and enough reserves for the unexpected.
  - ProfessorLayton 9y ago
    I agree with the limited milage being a huge constraint. Deep charging and discharging would severely degrade a battery's lifespan. Therefore all cars - From Model S to Prius - limit the battery's SOC to about 20-80% (Varies by chemistry and car model). The user may see 0-100%, but that is merely in regards to the usable energy available. So a Leaf reporting 80 miles of range is already taking into account degradation and provisioning.
mowenz 9y ago
At 60 and above, isn't the Prius a gas-only car with some energy recovery in the brakes? It seems battery life would vary tremendously based on how it was used.
- r00fus 9y ago
  I have owned a Prius for 12 years and the thing still got 50mpg - it had about 130k miles on it. For all intents and purposes it was about as good as when I bought it.
  - mowenz 9y ago
    It seems they should get to impressive mileage numbers reliably if used mostly for long-distance commuting. Electric motors during city-driving (traditionally where most engine wear takes place), and gas on the highway, where an ICE can basically run forever w/ proper maintenance.
roughcoat 9y ago
I don't think anyone really knows. The vehicles haven't been around long enough to understand what long term maintenance looks like regarding any aspect of the vehicle. People throw numbers around regarding cost for things like replacement motors and battery packs but as far as I can tell nobody knows how much that stuff actually costs either except the manufacturers, because the replacements so far have been done under warranty. That may not be true for all current-gen EVs though; I've mostly been paying attention to the Tesla stuff.
- bald 9y ago
  Cost as in cost for materials & labor? Or as in price? Regarding the latter, Replacement motor on 2013 Tesla Model S P85: USD 12,500 source: invoice from Tesla for my car

ProfessorLayton 9y ago

Currently Nissan Leafs can be bought here in the Bay for about 7k at under 50K miles, with 80%+ capacity on them. Depreciation on those things is crazy due to the tax subsidy, and the fact that better electric cars are coming to market. I'd consider getting one of those when prices tank even further thanks to the Model 3, and upcoming Lea,f to supplement my hybrid. Incidentally, I don't think battery life concerns are completely unwarranted - my hybrid's battery failed, and if it weren't for the extended emissions warranty in CA, I'd have been SOL. People seem to be aware of this, and it is evident in used hybrid prices, which many times cost about the same, and sometimes less that it's conventional counterpart. Due to its severe depreciation, I believe that if a Leaf's battery failed outside the warranty, the car is totalled.

pyoung 9y ago
That is crazy. I have been keeping my eye on the electric motorcycle/scooter market as well as on electric bicycles thinking that that could be a good way to support/enter the electric market. But good electric motorcycles are retailing at $15k+ and good electric bicycles can easily push into the $5k range. While I don't think I can personally benefit from a used Leaf (commute to work via bike, and use my SO's car for occasional weekend trips where range would be an issue), seems like at $7k it would be an absolute steal as a commuter car for a 2 car household, especially when you take into account savings on fuel. Battery concerns are certainly warranted, but used ICE cars in the $7k range aren't exactly risk free either.
technofiend 9y ago
I think that may also be a little bit buyer's remorse as people discover what exactly a sub-100 mile range means in practice. According to Wikipedia 80% charge implies a 66 mile range. However that's for a new battery, so you'll have to assume a further haircut as the battery ages since to baby the batteries you're supposed to only charge them to 80% of their remaining capacity, whatever it may be. My wife would normally be the ideal Leaf consumer - most of her jobs are no more than 10 miles from our house. But still that's 20 miles out of a pool of 66 before she a) turns on the air conditioner, b) runs any errands, c) runs into any traffic that delays her, and d) forgets to charge the car at home or finds the charger full at her grocery store. The Leaf comes with a contingency planning overhead cars with longer ranges do not and that has to factor into any future decisions; could my wife take a job say 20 miles from home? Maybe but any of the factors listed above could easily result in a dead battery tow. If I mapped that into my own use case even as an inner city dweller the short legs on the Leaf would preclude some practical applications I have now when a car with say 50 more miles of range would handily meet. If the Leaf ever gets to 150 miles new, which implies 120 mile range when new @ 80% charge and 96 miles when the battery has lost 20% of its capacity (also @ 80% charge) that would be workable for inner city driving with the air conditioning on and enough reserves for the unexpected.
- ProfessorLayton 9y ago
  I agree with the limited milage being a huge constraint. Deep charging and discharging would severely degrade a battery's lifespan. Therefore all cars - From Model S to Prius - limit the battery's SOC to about 20-80% (Varies by chemistry and car model). The user may see 0-100%, but that is merely in regards to the usable energy available. So a Leaf reporting 80 miles of range is already taking into account degradation and provisioning.

mowenz 9y ago

At 60 and above, isn't the Prius a gas-only car with some energy recovery in the brakes? It seems battery life would vary tremendously based on how it was used.

r00fus 9y ago
I have owned a Prius for 12 years and the thing still got 50mpg - it had about 130k miles on it. For all intents and purposes it was about as good as when I bought it.
- mowenz 9y ago
  It seems they should get to impressive mileage numbers reliably if used mostly for long-distance commuting. Electric motors during city-driving (traditionally where most engine wear takes place), and gas on the highway, where an ICE can basically run forever w/ proper maintenance.

roughcoat 9y ago

I don't think anyone really knows. The vehicles haven't been around long enough to understand what long term maintenance looks like regarding any aspect of the vehicle. People throw numbers around regarding cost for things like replacement motors and battery packs but as far as I can tell nobody knows how much that stuff actually costs either except the manufacturers, because the replacements so far have been done under warranty. That may not be true for all current-gen EVs though; I've mostly been paying attention to the Tesla stuff.

bald 9y ago
Cost as in cost for materials & labor? Or as in price? Regarding the latter, Replacement motor on 2013 Tesla Model S P85: USD 12,500 source: invoice from Tesla for my car