6 ms·

So, I am looking at a bit of the transcript from the first course and it is talking about scaling companies from millions to billions and things like that. YC

by Mz 9y ago

So, I am looking at a bit of the transcript from the first course and it is talking about scaling companies from millions to billions and things like that. YC started with this idea that you take a couple of college student hackers, give them like $20k and let them build something "ramen profitable." The basic idea was that tech had lowered the barriers to entry for business. An awful lot of these big companies (Uber, Home Hero -- which is shutting down -- etc) seem to hire 1099 contractors instead of employees and they often don't pay all that well. The goal for YC seems to have become grow the next unicorn. So, I find myself wondering (having already forwarded this stuff to various people): Is there anything of use in these lectures if you aren't looking to become a billionaire and have no desire to grow some gargantuan company that probably is making the founders rich on the backs of the 99 percent who are so often underpaid? Is there any basic business wisdom here for people not looking for some J curve growth and then cashing out? (Serious question and I know it sounds like snark. I just don't know how to say this more diplomatically because this is not how YC started and I have trouble with the direction it seems to have taken.)

goobynight 9y ago
Just want to chime in that your comment makes total sense and hope to see it answered!
prawn 9y ago
I think this bit is going to antagonise the people you're questioning: "...probably is making the founders rich on the backs of the 99 percent who are so often underpaid". Unless I've missed something, neither Uber or Home Hero are YC companies, and countless YC companies aren't leveraging 1099 contractors in place of employees. Your question might be better rephrased to something like: Is there value in Startup School for those aiming for modest growth or to create a lifestyle business?
- hoodoof 9y ago
  Is there nothing in between? lifestyle business modest growth business <-- one or two more company sizes in here? multi billion dollar company You don't want to say the word "lifestyle business" in any sentence or the VC's will ignore everything else you asked and focus on that. When they hear that word it triggers some sort of "fight or flight" response in the primitive amygdala of the VC, leading them to run away. Pretend you've never even heard of the concept of "lifestyle business", it keeps them happy.
  - prawn 9y ago
    We're not talking about VCs but freely available courseware. The mentors are apparently YC alumni rather than VCs.
  - csa 9y ago
    Yes. This area has quite a few private equity-owned companies. It's actually a fascinating space for buying a company, building it up, and then selling it to another company at a healthy markup.
    - mbesto 9y ago
      100% true - personally worked with ~40 software companies that fit this criteria.
- wslh 9y ago
  > Is there value in Startup School for those aiming for modest growth or to create a lifestyle business? Product/market fit is important even in a lifestyle business. The issue you will have is making your business work at a minimum scale.
ridruejo 9y ago
The easiest way to See how this applies to your particular situation is to actually watch the lectures and see what resonates with you. A lot of it is common sense that should apply to startups of all sizes that all building something new (vs say, opening a regular business like a restaurant): talk to users, iterate rapidly, work hard, focus...
- Mz 9y ago
  I would like to know before I invest that kind of time whether or not it is likely to simply be a waste of my time. If I just wanted to watch all of them and decide for myself, I wouldn't need to stick my neck out trying to ask a question that I know is going to be interpreted as rude by many people.
  - gscott 9y ago
    It's free, you can take the time to sample it on YouTube otherwise you just look ungracious. Plus to say that you are going to be so enlightened by the first video that the rest must be just as great rules out the possibly in video 3 you make an association that is important to what you are doing.
    - Mz 9y ago
      And telling me my time is worth so little that I should not even be allowed to ask if the content has any hope of being relevant to me is monstrously disrespectful of me and my time. The people at YC don't have to answer this if they find me to be too excessively rude. I would be happy to hear from people who have already watched some of the videos or whatever.
      - tertius 9y ago
        I'm not a VC chasing founder and the content is/was very helpful to me. I just cut out the hockey stick and spending huge to acquire and apply it to my little unsexy niche. So yes I believe it will be valuable. Ignore the parts that you disagree with.
hkmurakami 9y ago
YC in session is still about a relentless pursuit of product market fit. They're still the best accelerator for driving teams towards attaining this, and the lectures pertaining to this will be fruitful for any team.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
wslh 9y ago
If you watch the lectures you will find a more realistic view of startups. They start saying that the odds are against you and it is a better bet to work at a startup instead of founding one.
- frozenport 9y ago
  Which is bullshit because founders get paid more and have an ownership stake. This is a laughably bad attempt to provision their companies with junior developers who have a slave mentality.
  - wslh 9y ago
    It is not bullshit statistically speaking. Ownership doesn't imply you have something valuable.
    - nooyurrsdey 9y ago
      yeah it's a gambit. When you win you win big. But many times you don't win at all. In a statistics sense I'd be curious what the expected (average) return on being a founder is
      - wslh 9y ago
        Watch the first lecture!
  - tertius 9y ago
    Junior developers don't often skip payroll (they can move on if asked to do so) founders do. Junior developers don't often mortgage their houses or max out credit cards, founders do. I can go on and on. I think getting into debt is dumb, but statistics show that founders risk a lot more than employees. And many people do not want to be founders. Please don't call them slaves.
    - angersock 9y ago
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
pw 9y ago
I think there's some value if you're more interested in creating a lifestyle business than a unicorn (as it seems like we both are), but it's certainly not perfectly matched to that goal. It's a shame there's not a Startup School-like resource for creating a lifestyle business (YC-like in that it'd have a unified theory of lifestyle business creation, as YC has for startups, that'd been honed through assisting in the creation of hundreds of such businesses).
- csa 9y ago
  There are: 30x500 (Amy Hoy) Founder Cafe (Rob Walling) Dynamite Circle (community by Dan Andrews and Ian Schoen of Tropical MBA)
  - jv22222 9y ago
    Great list. That's also what we're working on at http://nugget.one http://nugget.one and I also think https://www.indiehackers.com https://www.indiehackers.com is a great resource for inspiration.
- mch82 9y ago
  See "Rework" by Basecamp
- soup10 9y ago
  "Lifestyle business" is derogatory propaganda by the investor class, who wants you to think like them and make more money for them. Every business is a lifestyle business, after all you only have one life. Investors want you to spend your time making money for them, instead of doing what you love. If you love making money too, then by all means listen to what they have to say, but take it all with a big bowlful of salt.
- shubhamjain 9y ago
  There is. It's called Hacker News. There's isn't a better resource to learn more about starting a small business than HN itself. From starting a consulting business to creating a passive income, everything has been extensively discussed. There are tons of inspiring stories here about creating a small business. (Incidentally, I think it would a great idea to collect all entrepreneurship related threads in a single place.) HN's expertise falls short when it comes to adjudicating unicorns as they don't usually look promising at the beginning. But, in case of a small product, I think community's feedback and advice can be invaluable.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
dang 9y ago
YC was always about startups and growth. Ramen profitability was an important milestone because then you weren't dependent on fundraising to survive. But it was always just a milestone, and YC's goal qua investor was to fund companies with a chance of growing big. By the time I got there in 2009 it was quite explicit, but it was clear before then too. On the point of not growing big, though, there was one area where YC did something fundamentally new: they supported whatever the founders wanted to do. If the founders decided not to try to grow big or to take an early exit, YC was always supportive. But this wasn't because they regarded such outcomes as successful from an investment point of view (they're not). It was because they were decent people. And pg used to say that pushing founders to do something they didn't want to wouldn't work anyway.
- Mz 9y ago
  Thank you for clarifying those points.

by Mz 9y ago

goobynight 9y ago

Just want to chime in that your comment makes total sense and hope to see it answered!

prawn 9y ago

I think this bit is going to antagonise the people you're questioning: "...probably is making the founders rich on the backs of the 99 percent who are so often underpaid". Unless I've missed something, neither Uber or Home Hero are YC companies, and countless YC companies aren't leveraging 1099 contractors in place of employees. Your question might be better rephrased to something like: Is there value in Startup School for those aiming for modest growth or to create a lifestyle business?

hoodoof 9y ago
Is there nothing in between? lifestyle business modest growth business <-- one or two more company sizes in here? multi billion dollar company You don't want to say the word "lifestyle business" in any sentence or the VC's will ignore everything else you asked and focus on that. When they hear that word it triggers some sort of "fight or flight" response in the primitive amygdala of the VC, leading them to run away. Pretend you've never even heard of the concept of "lifestyle business", it keeps them happy.
- prawn 9y ago
  We're not talking about VCs but freely available courseware. The mentors are apparently YC alumni rather than VCs.
- csa 9y ago
  Yes. This area has quite a few private equity-owned companies. It's actually a fascinating space for buying a company, building it up, and then selling it to another company at a healthy markup.
  - mbesto 9y ago
    100% true - personally worked with ~40 software companies that fit this criteria.
wslh 9y ago
> Is there value in Startup School for those aiming for modest growth or to create a lifestyle business? Product/market fit is important even in a lifestyle business. The issue you will have is making your business work at a minimum scale.

ridruejo 9y ago

The easiest way to See how this applies to your particular situation is to actually watch the lectures and see what resonates with you. A lot of it is common sense that should apply to startups of all sizes that all building something new (vs say, opening a regular business like a restaurant): talk to users, iterate rapidly, work hard, focus...

Mz 9y ago
I would like to know before I invest that kind of time whether or not it is likely to simply be a waste of my time. If I just wanted to watch all of them and decide for myself, I wouldn't need to stick my neck out trying to ask a question that I know is going to be interpreted as rude by many people.
- gscott 9y ago
  It's free, you can take the time to sample it on YouTube otherwise you just look ungracious. Plus to say that you are going to be so enlightened by the first video that the rest must be just as great rules out the possibly in video 3 you make an association that is important to what you are doing.
  - Mz 9y ago
    And telling me my time is worth so little that I should not even be allowed to ask if the content has any hope of being relevant to me is monstrously disrespectful of me and my time. The people at YC don't have to answer this if they find me to be too excessively rude. I would be happy to hear from people who have already watched some of the videos or whatever.
    - tertius 9y ago
      I'm not a VC chasing founder and the content is/was very helpful to me. I just cut out the hockey stick and spending huge to acquire and apply it to my little unsexy niche. So yes I believe it will be valuable. Ignore the parts that you disagree with.

hkmurakami 9y ago

YC in session is still about a relentless pursuit of product market fit. They're still the best accelerator for driving teams towards attaining this, and the lectures pertaining to this will be fruitful for any team.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

wslh 9y ago

If you watch the lectures you will find a more realistic view of startups. They start saying that the odds are against you and it is a better bet to work at a startup instead of founding one.

frozenport 9y ago
Which is bullshit because founders get paid more and have an ownership stake. This is a laughably bad attempt to provision their companies with junior developers who have a slave mentality.
- wslh 9y ago
  It is not bullshit statistically speaking. Ownership doesn't imply you have something valuable.
  - nooyurrsdey 9y ago
    yeah it's a gambit. When you win you win big. But many times you don't win at all. In a statistics sense I'd be curious what the expected (average) return on being a founder is
    - wslh 9y ago
      Watch the first lecture!
- tertius 9y ago
  Junior developers don't often skip payroll (they can move on if asked to do so) founders do. Junior developers don't often mortgage their houses or max out credit cards, founders do. I can go on and on. I think getting into debt is dumb, but statistics show that founders risk a lot more than employees. And many people do not want to be founders. Please don't call them slaves.
  - angersock 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

pw 9y ago

I think there's some value if you're more interested in creating a lifestyle business than a unicorn (as it seems like we both are), but it's certainly not perfectly matched to that goal. It's a shame there's not a Startup School-like resource for creating a lifestyle business (YC-like in that it'd have a unified theory of lifestyle business creation, as YC has for startups, that'd been honed through assisting in the creation of hundreds of such businesses).

csa 9y ago
There are: 30x500 (Amy Hoy) Founder Cafe (Rob Walling) Dynamite Circle (community by Dan Andrews and Ian Schoen of Tropical MBA)
- jv22222 9y ago
  Great list. That's also what we're working on at http://nugget.one http://nugget.one and I also think https://www.indiehackers.com https://www.indiehackers.com is a great resource for inspiration.
mch82 9y ago
See "Rework" by Basecamp
soup10 9y ago
"Lifestyle business" is derogatory propaganda by the investor class, who wants you to think like them and make more money for them. Every business is a lifestyle business, after all you only have one life. Investors want you to spend your time making money for them, instead of doing what you love. If you love making money too, then by all means listen to what they have to say, but take it all with a big bowlful of salt.
shubhamjain 9y ago
There is. It's called Hacker News. There's isn't a better resource to learn more about starting a small business than HN itself. From starting a consulting business to creating a passive income, everything has been extensively discussed. There are tons of inspiring stories here about creating a small business. (Incidentally, I think it would a great idea to collect all entrepreneurship related threads in a single place.) HN's expertise falls short when it comes to adjudicating unicorns as they don't usually look promising at the beginning. But, in case of a small product, I think community's feedback and advice can be invaluable.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

dang 9y ago

YC was always about startups and growth. Ramen profitability was an important milestone because then you weren't dependent on fundraising to survive. But it was always just a milestone, and YC's goal qua investor was to fund companies with a chance of growing big. By the time I got there in 2009 it was quite explicit, but it was clear before then too. On the point of not growing big, though, there was one area where YC did something fundamentally new: they supported whatever the founders wanted to do. If the founders decided not to try to grow big or to take an early exit, YC was always supportive. But this wasn't because they regarded such outcomes as successful from an investment point of view (they're not). It was because they were decent people. And pg used to say that pushing founders to do something they didn't want to wouldn't work anyway.

Mz 9y ago
Thank you for clarifying those points.