4 ms·

Primary reason that I don't buy into elaborate conspiracy theories right here.

by fspm 9y ago

andy_ppp 9y ago
Also, I think watching the Trump presidency be leaked against en mass goes some way to showing how difficult it is to keep anything nefarious hidden.
- Teever 9y ago
  This ignores the fact that we live in a time like no other where there is nearly ubiquitous and instantaneous digital communication infrastructure available in many regions which is accessible to all but the poorest of citizens. It is very possible that epic conspiracies were easier to complete in the past as the ability to leak and disseminate information to a wide audience was far more difficult.
mistermann 9y ago
Snowden's leaks didn't reveal somewhat of a conspiracy? Was that behavior not both secret and unconstitutional?
- cassowary 9y ago
  conspiracy <> secret + unconstitutional i think to reach the level of a conspiracy theory, you need a lot of people doing something outrageous. for instance, if you have the army, the navy and fbi and the russian kgb (or whatever they're called nowadays) in cahoots without a single leak for twenty-five years, that's improbable. i tend not to buy conspiracy theories because they usually need a leak which doesn't exist. for instance, my brother is a 911 truther. in his opinion, a civil engineer saying "that's impossible" establishes it as a conspiracy. in mine, the fact that no-one from the pentagon has said "haha, and we cut up that plane and put it in the building, it was amazing, look come here check out my emails" when he was drunk establishes it as the real deal.
  - beagle3 9y ago
    I have no horse in this race, but you are not more logical than your brother. First of all, "conspiracy theory" is often taken to mean one of the tinfoil variety ("government and gay aliens experiment with mind control beams" style, or "immortality treatment hidden by pharma for the last 100 years in attempt to increase profits and for eugenic purposes"). But a "conspiracy" simply means an act of collusion done secretly which contrasts with public statements or the law (or is generally harmful). Thousands of these happen every day in various scales. Assuming that you can trust government statements is, based on history, naive. So, do you have a different term for "small conspiracy I accept happens all the time"? Because your rhetoric seems to exclude these from existing. With respect to the (missing) 9/11 leak, there are countless stories that came out decades after happening. "Establishing it as the real deal" based on the lack of a leak makes to me about as much sense as a statement from a fellow truther (however well informed in his subject matter) establishing it as a lie.
    - pfisch 9y ago
      A conspiracy theory typically involves a pretty large group of people doing something big to deceive a massive group of people. Like a faked moon landing, a large false flag operation like 9/11, or a hillary clinton/democratic party death squad murdering leakers. Has anything like this ever happened in all of history? The whole snowden thing is the best example I can think of but I don't remember actually being surprised when that came out. Maybe if hitler burned down the reichstag? I don't think that was ever proved though and I'm not sure how many people would really need to be involved in something like that.
      - mistermann 9y ago
        Just one famous example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods But of course, this will be dismissed, as will any other example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman Want some more? https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=noam+chomsky https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=noam+chomsky Spend a few hours there and then come back and tell me the image the US government portrays is highly consistent with its actual reality.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

Primary reason that I don't buy into elaborate conspiracy theories right here.

by fspm 9y ago

Primary reason that I don't buy into elaborate conspiracy theories right here.

Also, I think watching the Trump presidency be leaked against en mass goes some way to showing how difficult it is to keep anything nefarious hidden.

Teever 9y ago
This ignores the fact that we live in a time like no other where there is nearly ubiquitous and instantaneous digital communication infrastructure available in many regions which is accessible to all but the poorest of citizens. It is very possible that epic conspiracies were easier to complete in the past as the ability to leak and disseminate information to a wide audience was far more difficult.

mistermann 9y ago

Snowden's leaks didn't reveal somewhat of a conspiracy? Was that behavior not both secret and unconstitutional?

cassowary 9y ago
conspiracy <> secret + unconstitutional i think to reach the level of a conspiracy theory, you need a lot of people doing something outrageous. for instance, if you have the army, the navy and fbi and the russian kgb (or whatever they're called nowadays) in cahoots without a single leak for twenty-five years, that's improbable. i tend not to buy conspiracy theories because they usually need a leak which doesn't exist. for instance, my brother is a 911 truther. in his opinion, a civil engineer saying "that's impossible" establishes it as a conspiracy. in mine, the fact that no-one from the pentagon has said "haha, and we cut up that plane and put it in the building, it was amazing, look come here check out my emails" when he was drunk establishes it as the real deal.
- beagle3 9y ago
  I have no horse in this race, but you are not more logical than your brother. First of all, "conspiracy theory" is often taken to mean one of the tinfoil variety ("government and gay aliens experiment with mind control beams" style, or "immortality treatment hidden by pharma for the last 100 years in attempt to increase profits and for eugenic purposes"). But a "conspiracy" simply means an act of collusion done secretly which contrasts with public statements or the law (or is generally harmful). Thousands of these happen every day in various scales. Assuming that you can trust government statements is, based on history, naive. So, do you have a different term for "small conspiracy I accept happens all the time"? Because your rhetoric seems to exclude these from existing. With respect to the (missing) 9/11 leak, there are countless stories that came out decades after happening. "Establishing it as the real deal" based on the lack of a leak makes to me about as much sense as a statement from a fellow truther (however well informed in his subject matter) establishing it as a lie.
  - pfisch 9y ago
    A conspiracy theory typically involves a pretty large group of people doing something big to deceive a massive group of people. Like a faked moon landing, a large false flag operation like 9/11, or a hillary clinton/democratic party death squad murdering leakers. Has anything like this ever happened in all of history? The whole snowden thing is the best example I can think of but I don't remember actually being surprised when that came out. Maybe if hitler burned down the reichstag? I don't think that was ever proved though and I'm not sure how many people would really need to be involved in something like that.
    - mistermann 9y ago
      Just one famous example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods But of course, this will be dismissed, as will any other example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman Want some more? https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=noam+chomsky https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=noam+chomsky Spend a few hours there and then come back and tell me the image the US government portrays is highly consistent with its actual reality.
deleted 9y ago
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