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Silly article, the revelations of Edward Snowden shouldn't really tell anyone much about the capability of spies, nothing we didn't already know. If you're int

Silly article, the revelations of Edward Snowden shouldn't really tell anyone much about the capability of spies, nothing we didn't already know. If you're interested in a good book about the technical history of the CIA check out 'The Wizards of Langley'. It gives a pretty accurate history of the technical ability of spies throughout the years, and the bureaucracy which limited them. https://www.amazon.com/Wizards-Langley-Directorate-Science-Technology/dp/0813340594 https://www.amazon.com/Wizards-Langley-Directorate-Science-T...

angusmacphail 9y ago
The salient point in the Adam Curtis piece is that regardless of their _technical_ capabilities, the organizations are themselves incapable of making use of what signals they may capture. A similar case can easily be made about the US intelligence establishment, for what it's worth.
- jstrate 9y ago
  The assertion the author makes about the revelations of Snowden is incorrect. The author hasn't done their homework. Further, if you'd like to know about the history of the technical ability of spies, and how the information gathered was processed check out the book referenced, written by an actual historian.
  - angusmacphail 9y ago
    | if you'd like to know about the history of the technical ability of spies ... again, just not the point. This _essay's_ argument would be completely valid in the main, regardless of what technical ability exists _or is falsely claimed to exist_, because the problem is one of power politics, emergent properties of _homo_sapiens_ in 20th century-style bureaucracies, and the cultural history of western intelligence services. And come on, maybe reconsider the assumption that your interlocutors haven't got the requisite historical background. If we're comparing bibliography size, you may find you come up short, given the number of FOIA-request documents from FBI and CIA I've been through in the past 15 years, not to mention secondary sources on intelligence outfits from around the world. Here's a fun example of the organizational madness of the US's chief counterterrorism bureaucracy, the FBI. During the late 40's and 50's there was a fear that the Ruskies would target homosexuals in the State Department for blackmail. This lead to all sorts of purges and ugliness, but crucially, the only case of a homosexual's being suborned in this manner was one in which the FBI itself blackmailed a State Department employee to prove that it was a threat.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
nyolfen 9y ago
>Silly article, the revelations of Edward Snowden shouldn't really tell anyone much about the capability of spies i absolutely loathe when people say things like this. people would nearly without exception treat you like a lunatic if you talked about the kinds of capabilities revealed by snowden prior to 2013. making references to ECHELON made plenty of people write me off as a paranoid crank. the ex post facto 'everyone knew this' is a fucking crock.
- Sunset 9y ago
  If the technology exists to do nefarious-thing-X, one must assume that governments are already using X despite whatever moral or political arguments they give you that they would never do it.
- pluma 9y ago
  Everybody had _heard_ of this, maybe. Everybody in the tech community at least. Or let's just say enough people that some people feel like everybody did. However when I heard of this, everybody also knew this was just a conspiracy theory. The NSA records everything -- Hello, NSA person who inevitably reads this -- sure, but c'mon they wouldn't actually store any of it or even pay attention as long as you didn't use trigger words. And even then you knew they wouldn't actually listen to your conversation because why would they care about some rando on the internet. So, no, everyone didn't know the NSA was doing what Snowden said they were doing. It just sounded familiar enough that it seemed like it wasn't news. I think the conspiracy theories (or leaks?) may have actually softened the blow of the revelations. "Oh, I guess the conspiracy theories were right. Huh, who'd have thought. Anyway, how's your sex life?". People carried on as if nothing happened. I swear if we somehow found out that there really were aliens in Area 51 all along, techies would derail every conversation about it by pointing out how everyone already knew this. And the common man probably wouldn't even freak out because it doesn't sound like news.
  - DanBC 9y ago
    > sure, but c'mon they wouldn't actually store any of it or even pay attention as long as you didn't use trigger words How did you think they were listening for the trigger words?

angusmacphail 9y ago

The salient point in the Adam Curtis piece is that regardless of their _technical_ capabilities, the organizations are themselves incapable of making use of what signals they may capture. A similar case can easily be made about the US intelligence establishment, for what it's worth.

jstrate 9y ago
The assertion the author makes about the revelations of Snowden is incorrect. The author hasn't done their homework. Further, if you'd like to know about the history of the technical ability of spies, and how the information gathered was processed check out the book referenced, written by an actual historian.
- angusmacphail 9y ago
  | if you'd like to know about the history of the technical ability of spies ... again, just not the point. This _essay's_ argument would be completely valid in the main, regardless of what technical ability exists _or is falsely claimed to exist_, because the problem is one of power politics, emergent properties of _homo_sapiens_ in 20th century-style bureaucracies, and the cultural history of western intelligence services. And come on, maybe reconsider the assumption that your interlocutors haven't got the requisite historical background. If we're comparing bibliography size, you may find you come up short, given the number of FOIA-request documents from FBI and CIA I've been through in the past 15 years, not to mention secondary sources on intelligence outfits from around the world. Here's a fun example of the organizational madness of the US's chief counterterrorism bureaucracy, the FBI. During the late 40's and 50's there was a fear that the Ruskies would target homosexuals in the State Department for blackmail. This lead to all sorts of purges and ugliness, but crucially, the only case of a homosexual's being suborned in this manner was one in which the FBI itself blackmailed a State Department employee to prove that it was a threat.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

nyolfen 9y ago

>Silly article, the revelations of Edward Snowden shouldn't really tell anyone much about the capability of spies i absolutely loathe when people say things like this. people would nearly without exception treat you like a lunatic if you talked about the kinds of capabilities revealed by snowden prior to 2013. making references to ECHELON made plenty of people write me off as a paranoid crank. the ex post facto 'everyone knew this' is a fucking crock.

Sunset 9y ago
If the technology exists to do nefarious-thing-X, one must assume that governments are already using X despite whatever moral or political arguments they give you that they would never do it.
pluma 9y ago
Everybody had _heard_ of this, maybe. Everybody in the tech community at least. Or let's just say enough people that some people feel like everybody did. However when I heard of this, everybody also knew this was just a conspiracy theory. The NSA records everything -- Hello, NSA person who inevitably reads this -- sure, but c'mon they wouldn't actually store any of it or even pay attention as long as you didn't use trigger words. And even then you knew they wouldn't actually listen to your conversation because why would they care about some rando on the internet. So, no, everyone didn't know the NSA was doing what Snowden said they were doing. It just sounded familiar enough that it seemed like it wasn't news. I think the conspiracy theories (or leaks?) may have actually softened the blow of the revelations. "Oh, I guess the conspiracy theories were right. Huh, who'd have thought. Anyway, how's your sex life?". People carried on as if nothing happened. I swear if we somehow found out that there really were aliens in Area 51 all along, techies would derail every conversation about it by pointing out how everyone already knew this. And the common man probably wouldn't even freak out because it doesn't sound like news.
- DanBC 9y ago
  > sure, but c'mon they wouldn't actually store any of it or even pay attention as long as you didn't use trigger words How did you think they were listening for the trigger words?