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Harassment encompasses a wide range of behaviors besides "asking another adult if they want to have sex with you," from _continuing to ask someone after they've

Harassment encompasses a wide range of behaviors besides "asking another adult if they want to have sex with you," from _continuing to ask someone after they've turned you down_, to inappropriate touching, to quid-pro-quo, where career advancement, or good work assignments, are tied to sexual favors. These offers don't need to be explicit. It's difficult to do your best work when you don't feel safe in the workplace. It's also difficult to advance your career when your boss is demanding sexual favors in exchange for promotions or favorable work assignments. Fundamentally these are unfair to the people being harassed, which is why laws and workplace norms exist to discourage them. They also expose the company to a large amount of legal liability. I'd suggest listening to people who have had to deal with this issue in the past, or paying better attention during harassment training the next time you are asked to do it at your workplace.

randyrand 9y ago
But none of those other behaviors happened at Uber. It was literally someone asking another adult if they want to have sex. How childish are we to get upset over this? I can understand that feeling uncomfortable is not good. Lots of things make lots of people uncomfortable. Maybe the issue is that Americans become uncomfortable too easily? Or do not know how to handle feeling uncomfortable?
- kevinburke 9y ago
  > But none of those other behaviors happened at Uber That's false; of course they did. She was told by HR that after her manager propositioned her, she had to switch to another team, or likely suffer a poor performance review. In another conversation with HR she was told that CA is an at-will employment state and she was on thin ice for reporting her manager to HR. In other words she was punished for declining a proposition.
- FireBeyond 9y ago
  You being in a relationship with, or having sex with, your direct manager isn't (just) about discomfort, it's about unprofessionalism. There are plenty of people to have sex or relationships with. You don't need to look to your direct employees.
- erroneousfunk 9y ago
  It wasn't just another adult, it was her direct manager. The person she depends on for her livelihood was propositioning her over the company chat software. There is rarely a good outcome in these situations, and in the BEST case it changes the employee/manager relationship drastically. If someone propositions me at a bar, I can roll my eyes and walk away. If a friend propositions me, I can say "no" and decide whether or not I want to continue being friends with them. If my manager propositions me, I'm put in a -- not just an "uncomfortable" position -- but a really bad one that might seriously impact my life and my family's life. About a year ago I momentarily misinterpreted a conversation over company chat with my new manager and thought he was about to sexually proposition me -- similar to what Fowler experienced. I don't want to give too many details, but it turned out to be _entirely_ harmless, there was just a cultural divide and he had a poor choice of words and the rest of the conversational context was unfortunate, but I pretty quickly figured out what he was talking about without him being any the wiser. But in that one second, it was like my entire world stopped. Like, heart pounding, vision narrowing, stomach dropped. I'm a 28 year old woman, I've been propositioned plenty of times before (from "graphic drunk bar type stuff" to "politely asked on a date by a co-worker in another department" -- not a big deal in either case), but it's never caused such an immediate physical reaction like that. My mind just started racing, trying desperately to figure out how to handle it, staring at the screen in a literal physical cold sweat, and coming up with nothing good. I was new in the company and I needed my manager's approval to succeed. He sits right across from me. I had just gotten married two weeks before, just gotten back from my honeymoon, my savings are depleted and I can't pay my mortgage without my job. My husband can't support both of us. I barely know my manager -- what would he do if I said "no"? If someone's capable of overstepping a huge boundary like this -- sexually propositioning a new employee they're managing -- what else are they capable of? Is this what I'd have to deal with for the rest of my time at the company? How do I stop it? Can I stop it? There are no female co-workers in the office -- there's no one to talk to for help. I'm very glad (understatement) that this turned out to not be the case, and my momentary panic was just the result of a misunderstanding, but it really gave me insight into the problem that cases of sexual harassment like this can cause. This is NOT just "one adult asking another adult if they want to have sex." I've been asked for sex before -- even by relative strangers. I've asked other people for sex before. Heck, in my younger, single, wild days, I've consented to sex with relative strangers! I've gone on to have good friendships with people I've turned down sex from. I'll even admit to fantasizing about the odd boss or co-worker over the years, sure, but I keep it in my head. But actually being propositioned by a manager, in real life, on a Tuesday morning at your desk, in the real world with real world implications? It was absolutely terrifying for reasons that have nothing to do with sex.
- s73ver 9y ago
  "But none of those other behaviors happened at Uber." That's not true. "It was literally someone asking another adult if they want to have sex." Not at all. It was a boss repeatedly asking their subordinate if they want to have sex. Huge difference.

randyrand 9y ago

But none of those other behaviors happened at Uber. It was literally someone asking another adult if they want to have sex. How childish are we to get upset over this? I can understand that feeling uncomfortable is not good. Lots of things make lots of people uncomfortable. Maybe the issue is that Americans become uncomfortable too easily? Or do not know how to handle feeling uncomfortable?

kevinburke 9y ago
> But none of those other behaviors happened at Uber That's false; of course they did. She was told by HR that after her manager propositioned her, she had to switch to another team, or likely suffer a poor performance review. In another conversation with HR she was told that CA is an at-will employment state and she was on thin ice for reporting her manager to HR. In other words she was punished for declining a proposition.
FireBeyond 9y ago
You being in a relationship with, or having sex with, your direct manager isn't (just) about discomfort, it's about unprofessionalism. There are plenty of people to have sex or relationships with. You don't need to look to your direct employees.
erroneousfunk 9y ago
It wasn't just another adult, it was her direct manager. The person she depends on for her livelihood was propositioning her over the company chat software. There is rarely a good outcome in these situations, and in the BEST case it changes the employee/manager relationship drastically. If someone propositions me at a bar, I can roll my eyes and walk away. If a friend propositions me, I can say "no" and decide whether or not I want to continue being friends with them. If my manager propositions me, I'm put in a -- not just an "uncomfortable" position -- but a really bad one that might seriously impact my life and my family's life. About a year ago I momentarily misinterpreted a conversation over company chat with my new manager and thought he was about to sexually proposition me -- similar to what Fowler experienced. I don't want to give too many details, but it turned out to be _entirely_ harmless, there was just a cultural divide and he had a poor choice of words and the rest of the conversational context was unfortunate, but I pretty quickly figured out what he was talking about without him being any the wiser. But in that one second, it was like my entire world stopped. Like, heart pounding, vision narrowing, stomach dropped. I'm a 28 year old woman, I've been propositioned plenty of times before (from "graphic drunk bar type stuff" to "politely asked on a date by a co-worker in another department" -- not a big deal in either case), but it's never caused such an immediate physical reaction like that. My mind just started racing, trying desperately to figure out how to handle it, staring at the screen in a literal physical cold sweat, and coming up with nothing good. I was new in the company and I needed my manager's approval to succeed. He sits right across from me. I had just gotten married two weeks before, just gotten back from my honeymoon, my savings are depleted and I can't pay my mortgage without my job. My husband can't support both of us. I barely know my manager -- what would he do if I said "no"? If someone's capable of overstepping a huge boundary like this -- sexually propositioning a new employee they're managing -- what else are they capable of? Is this what I'd have to deal with for the rest of my time at the company? How do I stop it? Can I stop it? There are no female co-workers in the office -- there's no one to talk to for help. I'm very glad (understatement) that this turned out to not be the case, and my momentary panic was just the result of a misunderstanding, but it really gave me insight into the problem that cases of sexual harassment like this can cause. This is NOT just "one adult asking another adult if they want to have sex." I've been asked for sex before -- even by relative strangers. I've asked other people for sex before. Heck, in my younger, single, wild days, I've consented to sex with relative strangers! I've gone on to have good friendships with people I've turned down sex from. I'll even admit to fantasizing about the odd boss or co-worker over the years, sure, but I keep it in my head. But actually being propositioned by a manager, in real life, on a Tuesday morning at your desk, in the real world with real world implications? It was absolutely terrifying for reasons that have nothing to do with sex.
s73ver 9y ago
"But none of those other behaviors happened at Uber." That's not true. "It was literally someone asking another adult if they want to have sex." Not at all. It was a boss repeatedly asking their subordinate if they want to have sex. Huge difference.