4 ms·

After the mandated increase in pay and W2 obligation, a lot of people just shuttered their home care businesses. Now the employer is no longer in business, and

After the mandated increase in pay and W2 obligation, a lot of people just shuttered their home care businesses. Now the employer is no longer in business, and the employees are left jobless. Would there be similar results if the minimum wage increased for low-skill jobs? McDonalds employees want $X, but McDonalds can just build those autonomous cashiers which are already all over the place here in Miami. Suddenly no more jobs for people.

stevenwoo 9y ago
My mother is living with my sister in California and we pay I think about $25 an hour for help with eldercare. The person we chose only gets half, the agency gets the other half. Knowing what I know now, we probably should just hire people off of craigslist and give them a lot more money than the agencies give them but that would require a lot more vetting from us. These now unemployed caregivers could go on craigslist but of course without the name/insurance/reputation of some company behind them.
- LoSboccacc 9y ago
  i surance is a big expense for a caregiver. getting a serious one off craiglist means he'll have to pay insurance out of that 25$ and individual bargain for those kind of things sucks. the only alternative would be to get an improvised caregiver, but that's worse under almost every other aspect
  - stevenwoo 9y ago
    Ah, thanks, was wondering what I was missing from the math.
- ams6110 9y ago
  If you are telling them when, where, and how to work they are your employee and you should be paying payroll tax.
josho 9y ago
> After the mandated increase in pay Another perspective is that without the mandated pay increase these people were working for a wage below the poverty line. (An assumption on my part, but why else would a pay increase be forced upon a business?) So what you really mean to ask are we better off paying folks a wage below the poverty line, or force business to pay a livable wage? I think history has provided numerous examples of why labor laws are important. So, my question to you, are you unfamiliar with history and why labor laws are important?
matthewmarkus 9y ago
Once, when I was in Seattle, I witnessed a volunteer cajoling a McDonald's employee to sign up for her Fight for 15 campaign. I was going to tell the fellow that he was about to commit economic suicide, but I let it go. Fast forward a year, and that McDonald's is now a hole in the ground and a new fancy high rise is going up in its place. If the cost of an activity exceeds its value, that activity will cease. Of course, if the cost can be passed on it will be passed on. So, if you raised the minimum wage to $1M per hour, a hamburger would cost $300k (or more).
- Retra 9y ago
  Working at McDonald's is already economic suicide. Unlikely that they're worse off now unless they are unemployed.
  - matthewmarkus 9y ago
    The minimum wage slowly boils away jobs. If it boils them away too quickly, problems result. https://www.epionline.org/minimum-wage/minimum-wage-teen-unemployment/ https://www.epionline.org/minimum-wage/minimum-wage-teen-une... It's why you might have a house full of teenagers now, but the mother has to shoulder the entire economic burden while they play Xbox or cause trouble. Pricing people out of jobs and thereby denying them mentorship opportunities and people skills does not leave them better off.
    - Retra 9y ago
      If it's the teenager working at McDonalds, they deserve a reasonable wage just the same as if it were the mother working there. Denying people the right to earn a fair wage just because you imagine they are teenagers doesn't leave them better off. Most of these people are over 25 years of age. It is not 1970 anymore.
    - Noos 9y ago
      Any job that would pay less than minimum is worthless. You're better off taking that time and putting it into learning something, anything, than to work 8 hours a day for less than $40 in wages. You're essentially asking lower class workers to be unpaid interns when you pay them that low, but there is zero benefit to being an unpaid intern in mcdonalds.

stevenwoo 9y ago

My mother is living with my sister in California and we pay I think about $25 an hour for help with eldercare. The person we chose only gets half, the agency gets the other half. Knowing what I know now, we probably should just hire people off of craigslist and give them a lot more money than the agencies give them but that would require a lot more vetting from us. These now unemployed caregivers could go on craigslist but of course without the name/insurance/reputation of some company behind them.

LoSboccacc 9y ago
i surance is a big expense for a caregiver. getting a serious one off craiglist means he'll have to pay insurance out of that 25$ and individual bargain for those kind of things sucks. the only alternative would be to get an improvised caregiver, but that's worse under almost every other aspect
- stevenwoo 9y ago
  Ah, thanks, was wondering what I was missing from the math.
ams6110 9y ago
If you are telling them when, where, and how to work they are your employee and you should be paying payroll tax.

josho 9y ago

> After the mandated increase in pay Another perspective is that without the mandated pay increase these people were working for a wage below the poverty line. (An assumption on my part, but why else would a pay increase be forced upon a business?) So what you really mean to ask are we better off paying folks a wage below the poverty line, or force business to pay a livable wage? I think history has provided numerous examples of why labor laws are important. So, my question to you, are you unfamiliar with history and why labor laws are important?

matthewmarkus 9y ago

Once, when I was in Seattle, I witnessed a volunteer cajoling a McDonald's employee to sign up for her Fight for 15 campaign. I was going to tell the fellow that he was about to commit economic suicide, but I let it go. Fast forward a year, and that McDonald's is now a hole in the ground and a new fancy high rise is going up in its place. If the cost of an activity exceeds its value, that activity will cease. Of course, if the cost can be passed on it will be passed on. So, if you raised the minimum wage to $1M per hour, a hamburger would cost $300k (or more).

Retra 9y ago
Working at McDonald's is already economic suicide. Unlikely that they're worse off now unless they are unemployed.
- matthewmarkus 9y ago
  The minimum wage slowly boils away jobs. If it boils them away too quickly, problems result. https://www.epionline.org/minimum-wage/minimum-wage-teen-unemployment/ https://www.epionline.org/minimum-wage/minimum-wage-teen-une... It's why you might have a house full of teenagers now, but the mother has to shoulder the entire economic burden while they play Xbox or cause trouble. Pricing people out of jobs and thereby denying them mentorship opportunities and people skills does not leave them better off.
  - Retra 9y ago
    If it's the teenager working at McDonalds, they deserve a reasonable wage just the same as if it were the mother working there. Denying people the right to earn a fair wage just because you imagine they are teenagers doesn't leave them better off. Most of these people are over 25 years of age. It is not 1970 anymore.
  - Noos 9y ago
    Any job that would pay less than minimum is worthless. You're better off taking that time and putting it into learning something, anything, than to work 8 hours a day for less than $40 in wages. You're essentially asking lower class workers to be unpaid interns when you pay them that low, but there is zero benefit to being an unpaid intern in mcdonalds.