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Well said. And it's important to carefully investigate the limits of the system that is to be improved, as it almost certainly is larger and more complex than a

Well said. And it's important to carefully investigate the limits of the system that is to be improved, as it almost certainly is larger and more complex than anyone thinks. More money is good, better tech is good, better pay for teachers is good, but these are hot spots on a huge network of systems and circumstances. "Holistic approach" is an overworked phrase but it's the thing we need here because education overlaps in so many ways with other aspects of society.

Consultant32452 9y ago
Interestingly, the best available research suggests that adding better tech to schools doesn't seem to improve education outcomes. http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34174796 http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34174796
- heymijo 9y ago
  That's not surprising. Let's take a look at this from the teacher side of things: Next let's substitute computers for manipulatives (something you can model math with such as a place value block) for the educational treatment. In the PDF I linked above about Mrs. Oublier, she reports she is using all of the prescribed educational treatments in her classroom. From manipulatives to small groups. She's even excited about them. Calls it a revolution! Then the researchers visit her classroom and while all of the pieces are there, none of the understanding how to use the treatments is present. This happens systemically, and it's what I have seen happen with technology in schools. In education we talk about how you teach, pedagogy, and what you teach, content as 'pedagogical content knowledge.' Whether it's blocks, small groups, smart-boards, or software it won't change the pedagogical content knowledge the teacher is bringing to the table. And in the great irony of our education system, our schools are not set up to learn (at least not effectively) so it's very hard to meaningfully move the pedagogical content quotient, especially throughout the system.
- heymijo 9y ago
  We can also look at tech from the student side of things: There is some nice software out there. Desmos comes to mind. https://teacher.desmos.com https://teacher.desmos.com But most software that makes its way into schools is not Desmos. It's usually something that merely replicates the content delivery method of teaching. Think Khan Academy. Other software is often just a digital way to practice facts or algorithms (my mind is in the math world for these examples). I noticed an older comment of yours about expectations your first CS class had including how to navigate a nix system, at least one programming language, and Matlab. Let's pretend this class was instead algebra I where a student is expected to know the fundamentals of arithmetic including properties of operations (so you can use them to manipulate equations), that the equals sign indicates balance, exponentiation, strong proportional reasoning with a solid understanding of multiplication/division, and an understanding of integers. Combine this with a course where the teacher delivers a lesson each day, you do homework, and then have a test each week, never stopping to go back to things that may not have sunk in, let alone pausing to work on any holes in the things mentioned above that are critical to understanding algebra. I can introduce Desmos to help you model linear equations in a wonderful interface, but it isn't going to do a damn thing to increase outcomes if a) you are lacking in any of the requisite starting knowledge and b) don't go to extraordinary lengths to keep up with the pace of the course. I like tech, but I don't think it's any sort of panacea for what ails our schools because it doesn't (and maybe can't) address the root causes.
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    My daughter's school uses i-Ready. It does give differential lessons to each student based on how they've done on the tests. It even occasionally circles back in areas you were maybe just "ok" in. The problem I've seen (based only on her reports so not even remotely scientific) is that if you fail a section, it gives you the exact.same.lesson again. It doesn't try to show you the same material in a different way. It just cycles you back through the same exact thing. Additionally, she reports that "all" of her fellow classmates hate the time they spend doing i-ready. I suspect it's not very engaging, there's no group/social interaction, etc.
    - heymijo 9y ago
      Ugh, that kind of teaching, whether from tech or a teacher just kills me as I suspect it kills students' dispositions towards those subjects. I truly hope that your daughter has many other opportunities to engage in meaningful mathematics throughout her education.

Consultant32452 9y ago

Interestingly, the best available research suggests that adding better tech to schools doesn't seem to improve education outcomes. http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34174796 http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34174796

heymijo 9y ago
That's not surprising. Let's take a look at this from the teacher side of things: Next let's substitute computers for manipulatives (something you can model math with such as a place value block) for the educational treatment. In the PDF I linked above about Mrs. Oublier, she reports she is using all of the prescribed educational treatments in her classroom. From manipulatives to small groups. She's even excited about them. Calls it a revolution! Then the researchers visit her classroom and while all of the pieces are there, none of the understanding how to use the treatments is present. This happens systemically, and it's what I have seen happen with technology in schools. In education we talk about how you teach, pedagogy, and what you teach, content as 'pedagogical content knowledge.' Whether it's blocks, small groups, smart-boards, or software it won't change the pedagogical content knowledge the teacher is bringing to the table. And in the great irony of our education system, our schools are not set up to learn (at least not effectively) so it's very hard to meaningfully move the pedagogical content quotient, especially throughout the system.
heymijo 9y ago
We can also look at tech from the student side of things: There is some nice software out there. Desmos comes to mind. https://teacher.desmos.com https://teacher.desmos.com But most software that makes its way into schools is not Desmos. It's usually something that merely replicates the content delivery method of teaching. Think Khan Academy. Other software is often just a digital way to practice facts or algorithms (my mind is in the math world for these examples). I noticed an older comment of yours about expectations your first CS class had including how to navigate a nix system, at least one programming language, and Matlab. Let's pretend this class was instead algebra I where a student is expected to know the fundamentals of arithmetic including properties of operations (so you can use them to manipulate equations), that the equals sign indicates balance, exponentiation, strong proportional reasoning with a solid understanding of multiplication/division, and an understanding of integers. Combine this with a course where the teacher delivers a lesson each day, you do homework, and then have a test each week, never stopping to go back to things that may not have sunk in, let alone pausing to work on any holes in the things mentioned above that are critical to understanding algebra. I can introduce Desmos to help you model linear equations in a wonderful interface, but it isn't going to do a damn thing to increase outcomes if a) you are lacking in any of the requisite starting knowledge and b) don't go to extraordinary lengths to keep up with the pace of the course. I like tech, but I don't think it's any sort of panacea for what ails our schools because it doesn't (and maybe can't) address the root causes.
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  My daughter's school uses i-Ready. It does give differential lessons to each student based on how they've done on the tests. It even occasionally circles back in areas you were maybe just "ok" in. The problem I've seen (based only on her reports so not even remotely scientific) is that if you fail a section, it gives you the exact.same.lesson again. It doesn't try to show you the same material in a different way. It just cycles you back through the same exact thing. Additionally, she reports that "all" of her fellow classmates hate the time they spend doing i-ready. I suspect it's not very engaging, there's no group/social interaction, etc.
  - heymijo 9y ago
    Ugh, that kind of teaching, whether from tech or a teacher just kills me as I suspect it kills students' dispositions towards those subjects. I truly hope that your daughter has many other opportunities to engage in meaningful mathematics throughout her education.