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>The problem is that there's a culture where sexual harassment isn't taken seriously Is there? I've seen people claim this but I haven't seen any evidence for

>The problem is that there's a culture where sexual harassment isn't taken seriously Is there? I've seen people claim this but I haven't seen any evidence for it. I know Susan Fowler's account is used frequently as basis for that statement and though I don't doubt her sincerity and truthfulness, you can't just extrapolate her experience to the entire (global) company.

mavelikara 9y ago
You stated: I haven't seen any evidence for it. In the very next sentence you offer one such evidence, and then go on to discredit it with you can't just extrapolate.
- travmatt 9y ago
  The mental gymnastics of motivated reasoning is a wonder to behold.
- macspoofing 9y ago
  >In the very next sentence you offer one such evidence, and then go on to discredit it with you can't just extrapolate. Right. Because in the first case we're talking about a systemic problem applying to a global company of 12,000 possibly spanning all levels of management as well as its polices and mandates. In the second case we're talking about a person's singular experience - which I've never disputed. The former is a much stronger statement than the latter so you cannot use the latter to prove the former.
  - stale2002 9y ago
    Were you really not aware of Uber's work culture issues? Uber's problems with work culture and hostility to women has been an open secret for years. I remember hearing rumors about it since 2014 at least. None of the recent allegations are surprising to anybody at all who has been aware of what it is like to work there.
mikeyouse 9y ago
> Is there? I've seen people claim this but I haven't seen any evidence for it. As another point of evidence, they just fired 20 people for sexual harassment to address 215 separate claims before the separate outside report into the amount of sexual harassment in their company. Maybe they don't deserve your skepticism.
- pfarnsworth 9y ago
  It wasn't just for sexual harrassment. It was for an conduct that they deemed inappropriate, like bullying, harrassment, etc.
_dark_matter_ 9y ago
I mean... a quick google search will get you there. [0] Travis calls Uber "Boob-er" because it helps him (and other execs) pick up women [1] Sexual Harassment + Heavy drug use at the global all-hands [2] Company group, including CEO, visits escort bar in Seoul [3] More "survivor" stories ------------------------------------------------- [0] http://www.gq.com/story/uber-cab-confessions?currentPage=1 http://www.gq.com/story/uber-cab-confessions?currentPage=1 [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/22/technology/uber-workplace-culture.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/22/technology/uber-workplace... [2] http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/27/uber-employees-visit-karaoke-escort-bar-in-seoul.html http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/27/uber-employees-visit-karaoke-... [3] https://medium.com/@amyvertino/my-name-is-not-amy-i-am-an-uber-survivor-c6d6541e632f https://medium.com/@amyvertino/my-name-is-not-amy-i-am-an-ub...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
ThrustVectoring 9y ago
In a culture where sexual harassment is taken seriously, the firings happen one-at-a-time as things get reported. It doesn't fester until the media spotlight shines on the company's cultural problems, then result in an investigation as to why things got so bad.
bogomipz 9y ago
>"Is there? I've seen people claim this but I haven't seen any evidence for it." Can you explain why you feel that 20 people being fired as a result of a company-wide investigation into to sexual harassment doesn't constitute evidence of a problem?
- macspoofing 9y ago
  Because it's 20 people out 12,000 and I (we) have no idea what it is they were fired for exactly. We don't know the context, the exact infraction, and how it was dealt with initially. I can't even tell if that rate is high, average or low when compared with any other company of similar size who would create a special sexual-harassment probe to investigate itself.
  - bogomipz 9y ago
    >"Because it's 20 people out 12,000" What are you suggesting by this, that there is an acceptable margin for unacceptable behavior? >We don't know the context, the exact infraction, and how it was dealt with initially." We do know the context, the context was an investigation into sexual harassment conducted by an outside law firm. We know that 31 people are in counseling/training and another 7 were given warning as a result of the investigation. So by comparison the incidents with these 20 were determined to be serious enough that they warranted termination instead of counseling or a warning. >I can't even tell if that rate is high, average or low when compared with any other company of similar size who would create a special sexual-harassment probe to investigate itself." I think the fact that 58 people (20 + 31 + 7) needing to be addressed retroactively instead of proactively at the time of the complaint is a pretty good indication there might be a large problem.
  - walshemj 9y ago
    > 20 out of only 12,000 is a huge number
    - aokyler 9y ago
      12000/20 = 0.001666 .17% is not a huge number.

mavelikara 9y ago

You stated: I haven't seen any evidence for it. In the very next sentence you offer one such evidence, and then go on to discredit it with you can't just extrapolate.

travmatt 9y ago
The mental gymnastics of motivated reasoning is a wonder to behold.
macspoofing 9y ago
>In the very next sentence you offer one such evidence, and then go on to discredit it with you can't just extrapolate. Right. Because in the first case we're talking about a systemic problem applying to a global company of 12,000 possibly spanning all levels of management as well as its polices and mandates. In the second case we're talking about a person's singular experience - which I've never disputed. The former is a much stronger statement than the latter so you cannot use the latter to prove the former.
- stale2002 9y ago
  Were you really not aware of Uber's work culture issues? Uber's problems with work culture and hostility to women has been an open secret for years. I remember hearing rumors about it since 2014 at least. None of the recent allegations are surprising to anybody at all who has been aware of what it is like to work there.

mikeyouse 9y ago

> Is there? I've seen people claim this but I haven't seen any evidence for it. As another point of evidence, they just fired 20 people for sexual harassment to address 215 separate claims before the separate outside report into the amount of sexual harassment in their company. Maybe they don't deserve your skepticism.

pfarnsworth 9y ago
It wasn't just for sexual harrassment. It was for an conduct that they deemed inappropriate, like bullying, harrassment, etc.

_dark_matter_ 9y ago

I mean... a quick google search will get you there. [0] Travis calls Uber "Boob-er" because it helps him (and other execs) pick up women [1] Sexual Harassment + Heavy drug use at the global all-hands [2] Company group, including CEO, visits escort bar in Seoul [3] More "survivor" stories ------------------------------------------------- [0] http://www.gq.com/story/uber-cab-confessions?currentPage=1 http://www.gq.com/story/uber-cab-confessions?currentPage=1 [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/22/technology/uber-workplace-culture.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/22/technology/uber-workplace... [2] http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/27/uber-employees-visit-karaoke-escort-bar-in-seoul.html http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/27/uber-employees-visit-karaoke-... [3] https://medium.com/@amyvertino/my-name-is-not-amy-i-am-an-uber-survivor-c6d6541e632f https://medium.com/@amyvertino/my-name-is-not-amy-i-am-an-ub...

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

ThrustVectoring 9y ago

In a culture where sexual harassment is taken seriously, the firings happen one-at-a-time as things get reported. It doesn't fester until the media spotlight shines on the company's cultural problems, then result in an investigation as to why things got so bad.

bogomipz 9y ago

>"Is there? I've seen people claim this but I haven't seen any evidence for it." Can you explain why you feel that 20 people being fired as a result of a company-wide investigation into to sexual harassment doesn't constitute evidence of a problem?

macspoofing 9y ago
Because it's 20 people out 12,000 and I (we) have no idea what it is they were fired for exactly. We don't know the context, the exact infraction, and how it was dealt with initially. I can't even tell if that rate is high, average or low when compared with any other company of similar size who would create a special sexual-harassment probe to investigate itself.
- bogomipz 9y ago
  >"Because it's 20 people out 12,000" What are you suggesting by this, that there is an acceptable margin for unacceptable behavior? >We don't know the context, the exact infraction, and how it was dealt with initially." We do know the context, the context was an investigation into sexual harassment conducted by an outside law firm. We know that 31 people are in counseling/training and another 7 were given warning as a result of the investigation. So by comparison the incidents with these 20 were determined to be serious enough that they warranted termination instead of counseling or a warning. >I can't even tell if that rate is high, average or low when compared with any other company of similar size who would create a special sexual-harassment probe to investigate itself." I think the fact that 58 people (20 + 31 + 7) needing to be addressed retroactively instead of proactively at the time of the complaint is a pretty good indication there might be a large problem.
- walshemj 9y ago
  > 20 out of only 12,000 is a huge number
  - aokyler 9y ago
    12000/20 = 0.001666 .17% is not a huge number.