4 ms·

There's the well-known Simpson's image "do it for her"[1]. I'm confused as to who he's writing for as it seems very obvious that many people get "motivated" fo

by jasode 9y ago

There's the well-known Simpson's image "do it for her"[1]. I'm confused as to who he's writing for as it seems very obvious that many people get "motivated" for work they don't enjoy because they have to support their family. For example, every time the word "passion" is thrown around on HN, it will incite people to respond: "fuck passion... I just want to work my 40 hours and go home and spend time with my family." [1] http://i.imgur.com/7MkgTGT.jpg http://i.imgur.com/7MkgTGT.jpg episode wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_Maggie_Makes_Three https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_Maggie_Makes_Three

zzalpha 9y ago
I'm confused as to who he's writing for as it seems very obvious that many people get "motivated" for work they don't enjoy because they have to support their family. Actually, what I find interesting about this is the post goes on to note that: It wasn’t only parents who experienced family motivation. It also applied to unmarried and childless workers who defined their family as brothers, sisters, parents, and other relatives. I'd love to dig into this more, but the paper is, of course, behind a paywall. I'm very curious if the people indicated, above, had to financially support their extended family, or if it was simply the need to be dependable and responsible, that created the motivation.
- creepydata 9y ago
  So the study is about Mexicans in Mexico working in maquiladoras. Multigenerational/extended households/families are rather common in Mexico. Mexican culture is certainly more family oriented than in the US - "familism." Plus since maquiladoras pay very little (Google what the houses of maquiladora workers looks like) pooling resources is probably extremely beneficial just from a practical standpoint.
  - throwanem 9y ago
    Depends on where in the US you're talking about. I'd hesitate to suggest there's an inverse correlation between SES and this kind of family orientation, but I don't have a better explanation for the observations I've made. I would have to question rather strongly the blanket assertion that people in Mexico just fundamentally care more for their families than people in the US do. Certainly I could be happier, on a daily basis, were I plying my trade as part of an organization more closely focused on the kind of work that I do. On the other hand, where I am now has the twin virtues of being quite stable and enthusiastically remunerative, which counts for a lot more when I've got folks back home to look after.
    - EpicEng 9y ago
      >I would have to question rather strongly the blanket assertion that people in Mexico just fundamentally care more for their families than people in the US do. No one said that. Societal and cultural conditions being what they are in that part of the world lead to a situation in which living together and pooling resources makes a lot of sense. That's not true for most Americans. It has nothing to do with "caring" more or less. Most people, given the opportunity to do so, will chose to live on their own rather than bunk up with three generations of family members.
      - throwanem 9y ago
        Cohabitation and provision of support aren't necessarily the same thing, though. The latter seems to be what's argued to provide the family motivation discussed in the article; the former, while perhaps not entirely orthogonal, certainly isn't necessary for the latter to occur.
      - resf 9y ago
        > Most people, given the opportunity to do so, will chose to live on their own rather than bunk up with three generations of family members. This is just not true at all. In most of the world, looking after one's parents is not seen as a chore or a hardship, but basic empathy for one's parents. When you grow old, would you rather live in a multigenerational household - vs being alone or in some kind of facility?
    - creepydata 9y ago
      Excuse me? Please don't put words in my mouth; I did not say "people in Mexico just fundamentally care more for their families than people in the US do." I said the culture is more family oriented. You can certainly care about your family deeply and not have a culture of living together and financially supporting one and another/pooling resources. Caring is not the same thing as resource pooling. You may be willing to jump in front of a bus for your sister but not come from a culture where it's normal for you to live with your sister into adulthood. It's simply different cultural expectations/norms than we typically see in the US. This culture may have come about from a practical standpoint out of need, or maybe not. It's certainly worth noting that even if the culture wasn't such it's certainly practical for maquiladora workers to pool family resources due to low pay. And yes, um, certainly parts of the US that have a large Mexican-American population would have a more Mexican-American culture. http://www.livescience.com/38647-mexican-culture.html http://www.livescience.com/38647-mexican-culture.html >Mexicans put a high value on hierarchy and structure in business and family matters. Especially outside of cities, families are typically large and Mexicans are very conscious of their responsibilities to immediate family members and extended family such as cousins and even close friends.
- AndrewOMartin 9y ago
  Sci-hub have it. Paste the DOI: 10.5465/amj.2014.0898 Into the box here: https://sci-hub.cc/ https://sci-hub.cc/
kevinSuttle 9y ago
There is also the faction of people who resent having to take a job they dislike and get nothing out of, simply as a means to provide for one's family.
- mikevm 9y ago
  Exactly. As long as I'm in a field that I love (Software Engineering), and there's a demand is above supply for engineers I will always look for a job that lets me work on projects that are interesting. If after 2 years of employment I don't feel satisfied, I will look for a new job (even though I could stay and keep making money).
- draw_down 9y ago
  I used to be married and that was my mindset. I knew if we started a family my resentment would be toxic, working a stressful job that you can't grow or learn from is horrible. Having people who don't do their jobs well depending on you all the time, then going home and having more people that depend on you all the time. That's just too much for me, I would break down quickly. It makes sense to me that people ignore all that and just focus on providing for family, but I just don't know how to do that. If my job doesn't work for me, it colors my whole life.
  - kevinSuttle 9y ago
    Thank you for this. Well-stated.
  - creepydata 9y ago
    It's an idealist mindset vs pragmatic one.
- mch82 9y ago
  Or a means to get healthcare for chronic, pre-existing conditions.
VLM 9y ago
"every time the word "passion" is thrown around" The problem is the English language doesn't, today in 2017, have separate words for "Our workplace and workers are passionate" vs "I'm passionate about something" I'm passionate right now about virtualization and I've got a micro-lab of vmware ESXi and vCenter and all that and I purchased the home lab license so its all legal and I love fooling around with it at home. There's just something weirdly entertaining about it, like setting up webservers at home in 1996. Its a pity because I just got over a bad case of passion about MQTT where I was doing unspeakable things to defenseless ESP8266 microcontroller chips and RabbitMQ with MQTT and node-red for graphing and here I am addicted to screwing around with something else with barely a break. There's not a darn thing wrong with this kind of passion. Its more fun than watching daytime TV or sportsball on TV. The kind of passion (same word) that "we" hate in workplaces and workers is best expressed as "Yeah sorry the bad news is your boss is a screamer. The good news is we prefer to think your boss is very passionate about his work, not that he's an antisocial asshole raised by wolves or maybe werewolves". The first and last time I worked for a screamer was in the early 90s and its the kind of thing people only tolerate roughly once per lifetime if at all avoidable.
ouid 9y ago
Passion is the abbreviation of power vacuum. The tendency to work hard for the enrichment of others, even in the presence of market forces.

by jasode 9y ago

zzalpha 9y ago

I'm confused as to who he's writing for as it seems very obvious that many people get "motivated" for work they don't enjoy because they have to support their family. Actually, what I find interesting about this is the post goes on to note that: It wasn’t only parents who experienced family motivation. It also applied to unmarried and childless workers who defined their family as brothers, sisters, parents, and other relatives. I'd love to dig into this more, but the paper is, of course, behind a paywall. I'm very curious if the people indicated, above, had to financially support their extended family, or if it was simply the need to be dependable and responsible, that created the motivation.

creepydata 9y ago
So the study is about Mexicans in Mexico working in maquiladoras. Multigenerational/extended households/families are rather common in Mexico. Mexican culture is certainly more family oriented than in the US - "familism." Plus since maquiladoras pay very little (Google what the houses of maquiladora workers looks like) pooling resources is probably extremely beneficial just from a practical standpoint.
- throwanem 9y ago
  Depends on where in the US you're talking about. I'd hesitate to suggest there's an inverse correlation between SES and this kind of family orientation, but I don't have a better explanation for the observations I've made. I would have to question rather strongly the blanket assertion that people in Mexico just fundamentally care more for their families than people in the US do. Certainly I could be happier, on a daily basis, were I plying my trade as part of an organization more closely focused on the kind of work that I do. On the other hand, where I am now has the twin virtues of being quite stable and enthusiastically remunerative, which counts for a lot more when I've got folks back home to look after.
  - EpicEng 9y ago
    >I would have to question rather strongly the blanket assertion that people in Mexico just fundamentally care more for their families than people in the US do. No one said that. Societal and cultural conditions being what they are in that part of the world lead to a situation in which living together and pooling resources makes a lot of sense. That's not true for most Americans. It has nothing to do with "caring" more or less. Most people, given the opportunity to do so, will chose to live on their own rather than bunk up with three generations of family members.
    - throwanem 9y ago
      Cohabitation and provision of support aren't necessarily the same thing, though. The latter seems to be what's argued to provide the family motivation discussed in the article; the former, while perhaps not entirely orthogonal, certainly isn't necessary for the latter to occur.
    - resf 9y ago
      > Most people, given the opportunity to do so, will chose to live on their own rather than bunk up with three generations of family members. This is just not true at all. In most of the world, looking after one's parents is not seen as a chore or a hardship, but basic empathy for one's parents. When you grow old, would you rather live in a multigenerational household - vs being alone or in some kind of facility?
  - creepydata 9y ago
    Excuse me? Please don't put words in my mouth; I did not say "people in Mexico just fundamentally care more for their families than people in the US do." I said the culture is more family oriented. You can certainly care about your family deeply and not have a culture of living together and financially supporting one and another/pooling resources. Caring is not the same thing as resource pooling. You may be willing to jump in front of a bus for your sister but not come from a culture where it's normal for you to live with your sister into adulthood. It's simply different cultural expectations/norms than we typically see in the US. This culture may have come about from a practical standpoint out of need, or maybe not. It's certainly worth noting that even if the culture wasn't such it's certainly practical for maquiladora workers to pool family resources due to low pay. And yes, um, certainly parts of the US that have a large Mexican-American population would have a more Mexican-American culture. http://www.livescience.com/38647-mexican-culture.html http://www.livescience.com/38647-mexican-culture.html >Mexicans put a high value on hierarchy and structure in business and family matters. Especially outside of cities, families are typically large and Mexicans are very conscious of their responsibilities to immediate family members and extended family such as cousins and even close friends.
AndrewOMartin 9y ago
Sci-hub have it. Paste the DOI: 10.5465/amj.2014.0898 Into the box here: https://sci-hub.cc/ https://sci-hub.cc/

kevinSuttle 9y ago

There is also the faction of people who resent having to take a job they dislike and get nothing out of, simply as a means to provide for one's family.

mikevm 9y ago
Exactly. As long as I'm in a field that I love (Software Engineering), and there's a demand is above supply for engineers I will always look for a job that lets me work on projects that are interesting. If after 2 years of employment I don't feel satisfied, I will look for a new job (even though I could stay and keep making money).
draw_down 9y ago
I used to be married and that was my mindset. I knew if we started a family my resentment would be toxic, working a stressful job that you can't grow or learn from is horrible. Having people who don't do their jobs well depending on you all the time, then going home and having more people that depend on you all the time. That's just too much for me, I would break down quickly. It makes sense to me that people ignore all that and just focus on providing for family, but I just don't know how to do that. If my job doesn't work for me, it colors my whole life.
- kevinSuttle 9y ago
  Thank you for this. Well-stated.
- creepydata 9y ago
  It's an idealist mindset vs pragmatic one.
mch82 9y ago
Or a means to get healthcare for chronic, pre-existing conditions.

VLM 9y ago

"every time the word "passion" is thrown around" The problem is the English language doesn't, today in 2017, have separate words for "Our workplace and workers are passionate" vs "I'm passionate about something" I'm passionate right now about virtualization and I've got a micro-lab of vmware ESXi and vCenter and all that and I purchased the home lab license so its all legal and I love fooling around with it at home. There's just something weirdly entertaining about it, like setting up webservers at home in 1996. Its a pity because I just got over a bad case of passion about MQTT where I was doing unspeakable things to defenseless ESP8266 microcontroller chips and RabbitMQ with MQTT and node-red for graphing and here I am addicted to screwing around with something else with barely a break. There's not a darn thing wrong with this kind of passion. Its more fun than watching daytime TV or sportsball on TV. The kind of passion (same word) that "we" hate in workplaces and workers is best expressed as "Yeah sorry the bad news is your boss is a screamer. The good news is we prefer to think your boss is very passionate about his work, not that he's an antisocial asshole raised by wolves or maybe werewolves". The first and last time I worked for a screamer was in the early 90s and its the kind of thing people only tolerate roughly once per lifetime if at all avoidable.

ouid 9y ago

Passion is the abbreviation of power vacuum. The tendency to work hard for the enrichment of others, even in the presence of market forces.