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Bizarre comparison! Prisons need to safely and securely provide accommodation for "high-risk, high-need" human beings to survive and be rehabilitated. Univers

Bizarre comparison! Prisons need to safely and securely provide accommodation for "high-risk, high-need" human beings to survive and be rehabilitated. Universities have a wholly different set of requirements.

abricot 9y ago
I agree. Maybe they should try comparing the cost with 24 hour psychological health treatment.
ianai 9y ago
One could say "high risk, high need" also applies to: -People otherwise neglected by society, like minorities. -The impoverished -Children/young adults Maybe if society actually prepared its people for...itself (society) we'd have fewer problems? I'm willing to bet $1 of room, board, and education alleviate $100 (or more) of incarceration. Current US budget for prisons: 74 billion Current US budget for education: 68 billion
lb1lf 9y ago
> (...) and be rehabilitated. -Never having experienced the US penal system first hand, I cannot be too bombastic - but from the outside, it sure looks as if rehabilitation has taken a back seat to punishment. If one were of a sufficiently cynical disposition, it would be tempting to assume that all involved parties (except the inmates) has more to gain from keeping people locked up than rehabilitating them.
- cm2187 9y ago
  Rehabilitation must exist but it must also take the back seat to punishment. In Europe there is this strange concept that developed that crime is a sort of disease and that prisons are kind of hospital. So there is some expectation that a criminal will be "cured" when leaving jail. And many judges got to the thinking that crime is caused by poverty and since jail will not cure poverty we should not send criminals to prison. And you end up with guys with a 10 pages long criminal record and who haven't spent a night in jail.
  - mxfh 9y ago
    I think it's strange to value punishment over the shared interest of a society. I punishment has priority society can pay for a lifetime of either repeated incarceration or continued or even increased violence after release, with no education and psychological evaluation of the prisoners.
  - lb1lf 9y ago
    Living in one of the most rehabilitation-focused of the European countries, Norway, I do not recognize the notion that crime being a disease of sorts is widespread. Yes, it has been voiced by some scholars, but is not, to the best of my knowledge, a widely held belief - more of an exotic outlier used by parts of the hip left. By the way, our recidivism rate happens to be among the lowest in the world. (Granted, we have a huge advantage that abject poverty is very rare in the first place.)
  - kasparsklavins 9y ago
    What is the purpose of a prison? It's meant to rid the society of unwelcome individuals. Another way to get rid of "unwelcome individuals" is to provide rehabilitation, more opportunities, etc. This is better in the long term. Source: I'm European.
    - cm2187 9y ago
      To me the purpose of the sentence is (by order of decreasing importance): 1. Reciprocity. The modern justice system is a social contract where the victim accepts not to seek revenge himself, which would give the powerful a complete impunity over the weaker. Instead the punishment will be applied by a greater force, historically the King or the local lord, now the justice system. If you tell a victim that we don't intend to punish the person who hurt him/her for the greater good of society, the victim will have a legitimate sentiment of injustice and may seek to take revenge directly (think of some Saudi prince committing rape in europe, it may be in the interest of the country to let him go, the economic impact of upsetting the Saudi may be much more than the grief of a victim). I think negating this aspect is extremely dangerous for a society (and I see this aspect completely negated in some European countries). But it is by no mean the only purpose (many crimes have no individual victim, like not paying your taxes). 2. Deterrence. Ideally you want criminals not to commit crimes in the first place because of the fear of consequences. If nothing happens you create impunity and you ultimately fuel more crime. Now prison is not a miracle deterrent. Some criminals are too dumb to consider the consequences when committing a crime, or are unafraid of some jail time. Also deterrence will have no impact of terrorists on a suicide mission. But it is an important role nevertheless. 3. Protecting society. Some criminals are deemed to do it again. In some instance the cost to society is low (consuming drug again) or high (rape or murder). In some cases the cost is too high for society to take a chance and the sentence is also a way to "take out" a criminal element and protect society. But this should be in fairly limited extreme cases. But you do not send Madoff to jail just to ensure he doesn't start a new Ponzi scheme. This is a secondary purpose of prison. And of course rehabilitation should also happen during the execution of the sentence. We would only make the matter worse by not using the jail time to help criminals find a better way. But I do not believe this is either the primary purpose of a sentencing (hence it should take a back seat).
jopsen 9y ago
high-risk high-need human beings belongs in a mental health facility, not a prison...
nilved 9y ago
> Prisons need to safely and securely provide accommodation for "high-risk, high-need" human beings to survive and be rehabilitated. lmao

abricot 9y ago

I agree. Maybe they should try comparing the cost with 24 hour psychological health treatment.

ianai 9y ago

One could say "high risk, high need" also applies to: -People otherwise neglected by society, like minorities. -The impoverished -Children/young adults Maybe if society actually prepared its people for...itself (society) we'd have fewer problems? I'm willing to bet $1 of room, board, and education alleviate $100 (or more) of incarceration. Current US budget for prisons: 74 billion Current US budget for education: 68 billion

lb1lf 9y ago

> (...) and be rehabilitated. -Never having experienced the US penal system first hand, I cannot be too bombastic - but from the outside, it sure looks as if rehabilitation has taken a back seat to punishment. If one were of a sufficiently cynical disposition, it would be tempting to assume that all involved parties (except the inmates) has more to gain from keeping people locked up than rehabilitating them.

cm2187 9y ago
Rehabilitation must exist but it must also take the back seat to punishment. In Europe there is this strange concept that developed that crime is a sort of disease and that prisons are kind of hospital. So there is some expectation that a criminal will be "cured" when leaving jail. And many judges got to the thinking that crime is caused by poverty and since jail will not cure poverty we should not send criminals to prison. And you end up with guys with a 10 pages long criminal record and who haven't spent a night in jail.
- mxfh 9y ago
  I think it's strange to value punishment over the shared interest of a society. I punishment has priority society can pay for a lifetime of either repeated incarceration or continued or even increased violence after release, with no education and psychological evaluation of the prisoners.
- lb1lf 9y ago
  Living in one of the most rehabilitation-focused of the European countries, Norway, I do not recognize the notion that crime being a disease of sorts is widespread. Yes, it has been voiced by some scholars, but is not, to the best of my knowledge, a widely held belief - more of an exotic outlier used by parts of the hip left. By the way, our recidivism rate happens to be among the lowest in the world. (Granted, we have a huge advantage that abject poverty is very rare in the first place.)
- kasparsklavins 9y ago
  What is the purpose of a prison? It's meant to rid the society of unwelcome individuals. Another way to get rid of "unwelcome individuals" is to provide rehabilitation, more opportunities, etc. This is better in the long term. Source: I'm European.
  - cm2187 9y ago
    To me the purpose of the sentence is (by order of decreasing importance): 1. Reciprocity. The modern justice system is a social contract where the victim accepts not to seek revenge himself, which would give the powerful a complete impunity over the weaker. Instead the punishment will be applied by a greater force, historically the King or the local lord, now the justice system. If you tell a victim that we don't intend to punish the person who hurt him/her for the greater good of society, the victim will have a legitimate sentiment of injustice and may seek to take revenge directly (think of some Saudi prince committing rape in europe, it may be in the interest of the country to let him go, the economic impact of upsetting the Saudi may be much more than the grief of a victim). I think negating this aspect is extremely dangerous for a society (and I see this aspect completely negated in some European countries). But it is by no mean the only purpose (many crimes have no individual victim, like not paying your taxes). 2. Deterrence. Ideally you want criminals not to commit crimes in the first place because of the fear of consequences. If nothing happens you create impunity and you ultimately fuel more crime. Now prison is not a miracle deterrent. Some criminals are too dumb to consider the consequences when committing a crime, or are unafraid of some jail time. Also deterrence will have no impact of terrorists on a suicide mission. But it is an important role nevertheless. 3. Protecting society. Some criminals are deemed to do it again. In some instance the cost to society is low (consuming drug again) or high (rape or murder). In some cases the cost is too high for society to take a chance and the sentence is also a way to "take out" a criminal element and protect society. But this should be in fairly limited extreme cases. But you do not send Madoff to jail just to ensure he doesn't start a new Ponzi scheme. This is a secondary purpose of prison. And of course rehabilitation should also happen during the execution of the sentence. We would only make the matter worse by not using the jail time to help criminals find a better way. But I do not believe this is either the primary purpose of a sentencing (hence it should take a back seat).

jopsen 9y ago

high-risk high-need human beings belongs in a mental health facility, not a prison...

nilved 9y ago

> Prisons need to safely and securely provide accommodation for "high-risk, high-need" human beings to survive and be rehabilitated. lmao