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There will always be a war between developers and sales. Sales always needs a foot in the door - and incomplete software can get them there. The customer (and s

There will always be a war between developers and sales. Sales always needs a foot in the door - and incomplete software can get them there. The customer (and sales team) might even expect faulty software, but just as long as you can demonstrate some features can be delivered that might be enough to get the sales through (and pay for the better quality). It's great that we want great software and even make the customer be part of some feedback cycle but sometimes you need to play "dirty" to make your company survive, and making your sales department happy is one of them. A good sales department knows the business and requirements better than any developer and sometimes you need to listen to them and not "agile your way around it". Too many drinks with the VP Sales guy yesterday. :/

hvidgaard 9y ago
The point of being agile and have continues feedback is exactly pleasing the sales department. Focus on the features they need to close a sale, then everything else.
- AstralStorm 9y ago
  That is not enough. Typical agile process is also supposed to keep software easy to change, but instead what you get is pushing a prototype into production even before it is finished in the limited feature set.
  - hvidgaard 9y ago
    Then don't create a prototype to begin with. I have had zero issues when clearly communicating these things. If you want me to prototype things, then fine, but I'm not signing it off to production. If they overrule me anyway without a really good reason, I'll find somewhere else to apply my skillset.
- AnimalMuppet 9y ago
  Pleasing the sales department to the degree realistically possible, that is, within the constraints of good engineering, technical reality, and team size. That's often less than the sales team wants, though...
  - hvidgaard 9y ago
    Indeed, but that is where we, as engineers, have to stand our ground, and say "not possible". A good executive will then ask, "what do you need to meet the goal?" and you can start to have a productive conversation. I could go on about this, I have had this argument many times and I have yet to have highups question my competency or dismis my arguments. I do always leave the door open with something along the lines "I can hire 4 developers and 1 QA, minimize time to shipping, but we will drop all current support. We will have significantly more bugs in 1.0 and if they want any major changes a rewrite is needed". If that is what they want, I'm a fool for not delivering, but I also know to start looking for a different job.

hvidgaard 9y ago

The point of being agile and have continues feedback is exactly pleasing the sales department. Focus on the features they need to close a sale, then everything else.

AstralStorm 9y ago
That is not enough. Typical agile process is also supposed to keep software easy to change, but instead what you get is pushing a prototype into production even before it is finished in the limited feature set.
- hvidgaard 9y ago
  Then don't create a prototype to begin with. I have had zero issues when clearly communicating these things. If you want me to prototype things, then fine, but I'm not signing it off to production. If they overrule me anyway without a really good reason, I'll find somewhere else to apply my skillset.
AnimalMuppet 9y ago
Pleasing the sales department to the degree realistically possible, that is, within the constraints of good engineering, technical reality, and team size. That's often less than the sales team wants, though...
- hvidgaard 9y ago
  Indeed, but that is where we, as engineers, have to stand our ground, and say "not possible". A good executive will then ask, "what do you need to meet the goal?" and you can start to have a productive conversation. I could go on about this, I have had this argument many times and I have yet to have highups question my competency or dismis my arguments. I do always leave the door open with something along the lines "I can hire 4 developers and 1 QA, minimize time to shipping, but we will drop all current support. We will have significantly more bugs in 1.0 and if they want any major changes a rewrite is needed". If that is what they want, I'm a fool for not delivering, but I also know to start looking for a different job.