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> Also Apple isn't to blame Khronos could not make something as usable as CUDA. Apple is the one that developed OpenCL. Apple submitted OpenCL to Khronos. So i

> Also Apple isn't to blame Khronos could not make something as usable as CUDA. Apple is the one that developed OpenCL. Apple submitted OpenCL to Khronos. So if Apple isn't to blame then who is? > Vulkan and OpenGL don't work in UWP, which is the future of Windows application model It's only the future if applications adopt it. Which since it's win10 only there's no real chance of that happening anytime soon. Keep in mind Steam is the dominate marketplace for gaming on Windows, not the Microsoft app store (followed by a few other stores - Origin, Battle.net, etc...). So what Microsoft wants to happen is pretty irrelevant to what will actually happen since nobody really cares about Microsoft's store. > Vulkan and OpenGL don't work [...] on XBox. Neither does DX12. Console devs aren't writing for UWP nor for Direct3D. UWP on xbox sounds like that old XNA thing - something for maybe indie devs but since indie devs now have a choice of engines to pick from they probably will care even less now than they did back when XNA was a thing.

pjmlp 9y ago
> Apple is the one that developed OpenCL. Apple submitted OpenCL to Khronos. So if Apple isn't to blame then who is? The Khronos group that wanted OpenCL to look something else than what Apple cared about. When one is in minority, better leave. > Which since it's win10 only there's no real chance of that happening anytime soon. I remember hearing the same about DX 10/Vista, DX 11/Windows 7 and how GNU/Linux would save the world of gaming with SteamOS and here we are. > Neither does DX12. I guess you don't follow XBox SDK news, UWP is irrelevant in XBox context.
- kllrnohj 9y ago
  > I remember hearing the same about DX 10/Vista, DX 11/Windows 7 And DX 10 & 11 adoption took forever to happen. Those claims were completely accurate. The difference now is that Vulkan is actually good with good tools, debugging, and support (probably because it came out of AMD instead of Khronos), so DX12 brings nothing to the table other than reduced platform support including worse support on Windows. Particularly since both are massive breaking API changes, so you're basically starting from scratch anyway not just porting over your DX11 code to DX12. I didn't claim GNU/Linux would save the world, so why are you trotting out that claim as if I did? > I guess you don't follow XBox SDK news, UWP is irrelevant in XBox context. Huh? I literally said "Console devs aren't writing for UWP nor for Direct3D." as the very next sentence. So I'm obviously aware of that, why are you pretending I'm not?
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    > I didn't claim GNU/Linux would save the world, so why are you trotting out that claim as if I did? Because it is the only OS where Vulkan is actually relevant in practice. Also Vulkan tools only look good to developers that never used graphical debugging tools outside OpenGL, specially in regarding to shader debugging and frame level information. > Huh? I literally said "Console devs aren't writing for UWP nor for Direct3D." as the very next sentence. So I'm obviously aware of that, why are you pretending I'm not? Because you reveal not knowing about DirectX, by mentioning Direct3D, which has died long time ago and then go on to compare UWP and DirectX 12 to XNA. While what XBox game developers care about is XBox SDK, which already has support for DirectX 12.
    - kllrnohj 9y ago
      > Because it is the only OS where Vulkan is actually relevant in practice. Vulkan has a very strong presence on Windows, which is what I focused on entirely. > Also Vulkan tools only look good to developers that never used graphical debugging tools outside OpenGL, specially in regarding to shader debugging and frame level information RenderDoc, one of the major graphical debugging tools, has Vulkan support in addition to Direct3D 11 & 12 support. It seems you're just entirely oblivious of everything about vulkan... > Because you reveal not knowing about DirectX, by mentioning Direct3D, which has died long time ago Direct3D is the 3D graphics API of DirectX. It's not dead. If it was we wouldn't be having this discussion at all as Direct3D 12 wouldn't even exist. DirectX is more than just 3D graphics APIs - that's what D3D is. DirectX also includes Direct2D (not dead, either), DirectCompute for GPGPU, and XAudio2 for low-level audio access. Most of DirectX, though, has died over the years - like DirectInput, DirectSound, and DirectSound3D. Direct3D & Direct2D/DirectWrite are largely the only parts of DirectX that matter anymore.

pjmlp 9y ago

> Apple is the one that developed OpenCL. Apple submitted OpenCL to Khronos. So if Apple isn't to blame then who is? The Khronos group that wanted OpenCL to look something else than what Apple cared about. When one is in minority, better leave. > Which since it's win10 only there's no real chance of that happening anytime soon. I remember hearing the same about DX 10/Vista, DX 11/Windows 7 and how GNU/Linux would save the world of gaming with SteamOS and here we are. > Neither does DX12. I guess you don't follow XBox SDK news, UWP is irrelevant in XBox context.

kllrnohj 9y ago
> I remember hearing the same about DX 10/Vista, DX 11/Windows 7 And DX 10 & 11 adoption took forever to happen. Those claims were completely accurate. The difference now is that Vulkan is actually good with good tools, debugging, and support (probably because it came out of AMD instead of Khronos), so DX12 brings nothing to the table other than reduced platform support including worse support on Windows. Particularly since both are massive breaking API changes, so you're basically starting from scratch anyway not just porting over your DX11 code to DX12. I didn't claim GNU/Linux would save the world, so why are you trotting out that claim as if I did? > I guess you don't follow XBox SDK news, UWP is irrelevant in XBox context. Huh? I literally said "Console devs aren't writing for UWP nor for Direct3D." as the very next sentence. So I'm obviously aware of that, why are you pretending I'm not?
- pjmlp 9y ago
  > I didn't claim GNU/Linux would save the world, so why are you trotting out that claim as if I did? Because it is the only OS where Vulkan is actually relevant in practice. Also Vulkan tools only look good to developers that never used graphical debugging tools outside OpenGL, specially in regarding to shader debugging and frame level information. > Huh? I literally said "Console devs aren't writing for UWP nor for Direct3D." as the very next sentence. So I'm obviously aware of that, why are you pretending I'm not? Because you reveal not knowing about DirectX, by mentioning Direct3D, which has died long time ago and then go on to compare UWP and DirectX 12 to XNA. While what XBox game developers care about is XBox SDK, which already has support for DirectX 12.
  - kllrnohj 9y ago
    > Because it is the only OS where Vulkan is actually relevant in practice. Vulkan has a very strong presence on Windows, which is what I focused on entirely. > Also Vulkan tools only look good to developers that never used graphical debugging tools outside OpenGL, specially in regarding to shader debugging and frame level information RenderDoc, one of the major graphical debugging tools, has Vulkan support in addition to Direct3D 11 & 12 support. It seems you're just entirely oblivious of everything about vulkan... > Because you reveal not knowing about DirectX, by mentioning Direct3D, which has died long time ago Direct3D is the 3D graphics API of DirectX. It's not dead. If it was we wouldn't be having this discussion at all as Direct3D 12 wouldn't even exist. DirectX is more than just 3D graphics APIs - that's what D3D is. DirectX also includes Direct2D (not dead, either), DirectCompute for GPGPU, and XAudio2 for low-level audio access. Most of DirectX, though, has died over the years - like DirectInput, DirectSound, and DirectSound3D. Direct3D & Direct2D/DirectWrite are largely the only parts of DirectX that matter anymore.