7 ms·

Silicon valley culture used to be that way, and is still that way. The cube farms was the prevailing best practice. Then the pendulum swung to the other side w

Silicon valley culture used to be that way, and is still that way. The cube farms was the prevailing best practice. Then the pendulum swung to the other side with the new kids entering the workforce and wanted open office, work families, and all that. Which then created the cargo culting from others entering the process. Now we're on the bubble of the pendulum swinging back. So it goes.

lenjaffe 9y ago
The only people who want the open office are the people who either don't want to pay for cubicles, or want to cram more people into a space (worker density) than a cube farm will allow.
- baddox 9y ago
  Or they don't want to feel like I'm [0] locked in a room alone for absolutely no reason. [0] Oops, we were using "they."
  - abawany 9y ago
    But if you want to kill the alone-ness, all you have to do is step out. Heck, people used to pair program in cubes long before this open space disease (sorry, my opinion). For those of us that are unable to function in the cage-free farm, our only option is to destroy our hearing with headphones to try to get some work done.
    - baddox 9y ago
      Step out to where exactly? Generally it's not just you in your own office, everyone else is too.
      - abawany 9y ago
        I think I misunderstood your original comment 'Or they don't want to feel like I'm [0] locked in a room alone for absolutely no reason.'. I took it to mean that cubicles/offices cause loneliness. I now see that what you were saying is that the reason people are stuffed in the bullpen is the 'concern' that you outlined.
      - rayiner 9y ago
        Step out and walk around? Where I work, we have private offices, but people have self segregated into a chatty end of the hallway, and "Siberia."
      - rpeden 9y ago
        Maybe a hub-and-spoke type of setup like Bell Labs had? Cal Newport wrote a bit about it in Deep Work [1] and I think it sounds like a potential way to get the best of both worlds. [1] https://medium.com/@GrandCentralPub/excerpted-from-deep-work-by-cal-newport-f58adfb24fd0 https://medium.com/@GrandCentralPub/excerpted-from-deep-work...
treehau5 9y ago
Bullshit. nobody wanted open floor plans, or if they did, they had immediate buyers remorse. Open floor plans became a fad that turned into a way for cheap ass companies to slash costs and brag about it on linkedin about how trendy they were being.
- WillPostForFood 9y ago
  I can prove you wrong. I want and like open floor plans, and have never had buyer's remorse. I'll rule out any cube farm for any future job; I hate the isolation.
  - opo 9y ago
    It is unfortunate that companies can't be flexible and give employees the environment that the employees find will make them more productive. So one group of people could be seated elbow to elbow with headphones to avoid some of the distractions and another group of people would have personal offices with a door where they can concentrate - that way everyone is happy.
    - xyzzy_plugh 9y ago
      Open office is more than elbow-to-elbow with headphones on. out of the 8 people who sit in my immediate vicinity, rarely are more than one or two wearing headphones. While it's definitely distracting, there is a type of conversation that occurs which I have never experienced in all my years as a cube farmer. If I want isolation, I can go sit somewhere else or work from home or a cafe. It feels like the default being not isolation makes all the difference.
      - specialist 9y ago
        My highest function team had a mostly open office. Big, wide, open, lotsa windows, plants, couch etc. 12 people, self selected. We had a handful of offices for anyone who preferred or needed that. Then my boss stuffed some clowns onto my budget and ruined the magic. Since then, most places I've worked have been either call centers or highschool cafeterias. No amount of bon ami can overcome inhumane working conditions. I'd rather have an office.
ChuckMcM 9y ago
As a counterpoint I've met and managed people who preferred open office arrangements. Which only really only proves that generalizations are bad. I agree also that we're likely at the full extension of the pendulum on the open office trend. The formal/informal observation for me is key, some people want work to be more like their college dorm. They are in fact "living" at work and eliminating any notion at all of a work/life balance. I expect, but can't predict, that this will change as they get older.
- xapata 9y ago
  Counter-example to your expectation: as I've gotten older the separation of my work from the rest of life has been nearly eliminated. I run my own business, so I'm always on the clock. Or never on the clock, depending on how you look at it. At parties, I tell people I'm unemployed. My business is my hobby. It just happens to earn money.
  - ChuckMcM 9y ago
    So your savings or other passive income provide for your needs when you hobby happens to 'not' earn money? There are a lot of people in my circle of friends who have reached that point of not "needing" to work in the sense of putting food on the table or paying for things, but working on things they enjoy because they have things to do which are fun. 'unemployed' tends to get people who don't know you wondering if they should feel sorry for you or not, 'retired' seems to bring up images of rocking on the deck chair and playing golf during the day. I feel like what you are doing is somewhere between those two.
    - xapata 9y ago
      Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. I work 40-60 hours most weeks on my business. Yesterday was a 14-hour day. Sometimes I take a week or month off. It's my only source of income, though I have been stashing away over the years. It's just that, in the moment, it doesn't often feel like work.
tomc1985 9y ago
Idiots! Stop picking one extreme or the other! Someone stick a wall in front of this pendulum at the half-way point. Please!
- m-j-fox 9y ago
  Cube-farm vs. open are not the extremes. My father had an office the size of a studio apartment with a door and a couch and a detergent bottle he peed in to avoid running into co-workers in the bathroom. I've seen an SF startup where people sit shoulder-to-shoulder on picnic benches, their only privacy, headphones and a single glass-walled conference room. That's extreme.
- stevage 9y ago
  Cubicles aren't even the halfway point. Proper offices might be. Everyone working from home is the extreme.
pcmaffey 9y ago
IMO remote is the new vector that will disrupt the pendulum's back and forth. Working remote requires a high level of professionalism and independence, and it puts face-time at a premium. So you use it for your top priorities (which may be socializing / culture-building stuff, or it may be collaborating stuff).
anonce20170605 9y ago
Where does one work in SW in SF if one wants an office with a door? Does it even exist?
dang 9y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14492303 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14492303 and marked it off-topic.

lenjaffe 9y ago

The only people who want the open office are the people who either don't want to pay for cubicles, or want to cram more people into a space (worker density) than a cube farm will allow.

baddox 9y ago
Or they don't want to feel like I'm [0] locked in a room alone for absolutely no reason. [0] Oops, we were using "they."
- abawany 9y ago
  But if you want to kill the alone-ness, all you have to do is step out. Heck, people used to pair program in cubes long before this open space disease (sorry, my opinion). For those of us that are unable to function in the cage-free farm, our only option is to destroy our hearing with headphones to try to get some work done.
  - baddox 9y ago
    Step out to where exactly? Generally it's not just you in your own office, everyone else is too.
    - abawany 9y ago
      I think I misunderstood your original comment 'Or they don't want to feel like I'm [0] locked in a room alone for absolutely no reason.'. I took it to mean that cubicles/offices cause loneliness. I now see that what you were saying is that the reason people are stuffed in the bullpen is the 'concern' that you outlined.
    - rayiner 9y ago
      Step out and walk around? Where I work, we have private offices, but people have self segregated into a chatty end of the hallway, and "Siberia."
    - rpeden 9y ago
      Maybe a hub-and-spoke type of setup like Bell Labs had? Cal Newport wrote a bit about it in Deep Work [1] and I think it sounds like a potential way to get the best of both worlds. [1] https://medium.com/@GrandCentralPub/excerpted-from-deep-work-by-cal-newport-f58adfb24fd0 https://medium.com/@GrandCentralPub/excerpted-from-deep-work...

treehau5 9y ago

Bullshit. nobody wanted open floor plans, or if they did, they had immediate buyers remorse. Open floor plans became a fad that turned into a way for cheap ass companies to slash costs and brag about it on linkedin about how trendy they were being.

WillPostForFood 9y ago
I can prove you wrong. I want and like open floor plans, and have never had buyer's remorse. I'll rule out any cube farm for any future job; I hate the isolation.
- opo 9y ago
  It is unfortunate that companies can't be flexible and give employees the environment that the employees find will make them more productive. So one group of people could be seated elbow to elbow with headphones to avoid some of the distractions and another group of people would have personal offices with a door where they can concentrate - that way everyone is happy.
  - xyzzy_plugh 9y ago
    Open office is more than elbow-to-elbow with headphones on. out of the 8 people who sit in my immediate vicinity, rarely are more than one or two wearing headphones. While it's definitely distracting, there is a type of conversation that occurs which I have never experienced in all my years as a cube farmer. If I want isolation, I can go sit somewhere else or work from home or a cafe. It feels like the default being not isolation makes all the difference.
    - specialist 9y ago
      My highest function team had a mostly open office. Big, wide, open, lotsa windows, plants, couch etc. 12 people, self selected. We had a handful of offices for anyone who preferred or needed that. Then my boss stuffed some clowns onto my budget and ruined the magic. Since then, most places I've worked have been either call centers or highschool cafeterias. No amount of bon ami can overcome inhumane working conditions. I'd rather have an office.

ChuckMcM 9y ago

As a counterpoint I've met and managed people who preferred open office arrangements. Which only really only proves that generalizations are bad. I agree also that we're likely at the full extension of the pendulum on the open office trend. The formal/informal observation for me is key, some people want work to be more like their college dorm. They are in fact "living" at work and eliminating any notion at all of a work/life balance. I expect, but can't predict, that this will change as they get older.

xapata 9y ago
Counter-example to your expectation: as I've gotten older the separation of my work from the rest of life has been nearly eliminated. I run my own business, so I'm always on the clock. Or never on the clock, depending on how you look at it. At parties, I tell people I'm unemployed. My business is my hobby. It just happens to earn money.
- ChuckMcM 9y ago
  So your savings or other passive income provide for your needs when you hobby happens to 'not' earn money? There are a lot of people in my circle of friends who have reached that point of not "needing" to work in the sense of putting food on the table or paying for things, but working on things they enjoy because they have things to do which are fun. 'unemployed' tends to get people who don't know you wondering if they should feel sorry for you or not, 'retired' seems to bring up images of rocking on the deck chair and playing golf during the day. I feel like what you are doing is somewhere between those two.
  - xapata 9y ago
    Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. I work 40-60 hours most weeks on my business. Yesterday was a 14-hour day. Sometimes I take a week or month off. It's my only source of income, though I have been stashing away over the years. It's just that, in the moment, it doesn't often feel like work.

tomc1985 9y ago

Idiots! Stop picking one extreme or the other! Someone stick a wall in front of this pendulum at the half-way point. Please!

m-j-fox 9y ago
Cube-farm vs. open are not the extremes. My father had an office the size of a studio apartment with a door and a couch and a detergent bottle he peed in to avoid running into co-workers in the bathroom. I've seen an SF startup where people sit shoulder-to-shoulder on picnic benches, their only privacy, headphones and a single glass-walled conference room. That's extreme.
stevage 9y ago
Cubicles aren't even the halfway point. Proper offices might be. Everyone working from home is the extreme.

pcmaffey 9y ago

IMO remote is the new vector that will disrupt the pendulum's back and forth. Working remote requires a high level of professionalism and independence, and it puts face-time at a premium. So you use it for your top priorities (which may be socializing / culture-building stuff, or it may be collaborating stuff).

anonce20170605 9y ago

Where does one work in SW in SF if one wants an office with a door? Does it even exist?

dang 9y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14492303 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14492303 and marked it off-topic.