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Except OpenCL was more like Metal - designed by Apple, pushed by Apple, used by nobody. The major game engines already support Vulkan, too, and Vulkan is getti

Except OpenCL was more like Metal - designed by Apple, pushed by Apple, used by nobody. The major game engines already support Vulkan, too, and Vulkan is getting far more game developer support than Metal is. A few of the major engines, like Source 2 & ID Tech 6, also chose to only support Vulkan and not DX12. Largely because DX12 requires Win10 which means out the gate you've eliminated half of your Windows gaming population compared to Vulkan. Currently all signs point towards Vulkan edging out DX12 in the Windows gaming market. That could change, of course, but Microsoft making DX12 win10-only as well as the closed access preview thing have so far put it at a pretty large disadvantage vs. Vulkan in these early days. Which matters as otherwise the APIs are pretty much the same, so why go with the Win10-exclusive when you can have the exact same thing but everywhere? Then for your content creation apps where unity/unreal middleware isn't really an option, that's going to be extra painful. Or they just ignore the problem and run OpenGL 4.1 on OSX and OpenGL 4.5+/Vulkan on Windows, and say "suck to all you pro consumers on mac, you should have bought a windows workstation instead"?

pjmlp 9y ago
> Except OpenCL was more like Metal - designed by Apple, pushed by Apple, used by nobody. Because Apple could not stand Khronos politics. Also Apple isn't to blame Khronos could not make something as usable as CUDA. Really. only now they start to care about C alternatives for GPGPU?! > Currently all signs point towards Vulkan edging out DX12 in the Windows gaming market. Vulkan and OpenGL don't work in UWP, which is the future of Windows application model, nor on XBox.
- kllrnohj 9y ago
  > Also Apple isn't to blame Khronos could not make something as usable as CUDA. Apple is the one that developed OpenCL. Apple submitted OpenCL to Khronos. So if Apple isn't to blame then who is? > Vulkan and OpenGL don't work in UWP, which is the future of Windows application model It's only the future if applications adopt it. Which since it's win10 only there's no real chance of that happening anytime soon. Keep in mind Steam is the dominate marketplace for gaming on Windows, not the Microsoft app store (followed by a few other stores - Origin, Battle.net, etc...). So what Microsoft wants to happen is pretty irrelevant to what will actually happen since nobody really cares about Microsoft's store. > Vulkan and OpenGL don't work [...] on XBox. Neither does DX12. Console devs aren't writing for UWP nor for Direct3D. UWP on xbox sounds like that old XNA thing - something for maybe indie devs but since indie devs now have a choice of engines to pick from they probably will care even less now than they did back when XNA was a thing.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    > Apple is the one that developed OpenCL. Apple submitted OpenCL to Khronos. So if Apple isn't to blame then who is? The Khronos group that wanted OpenCL to look something else than what Apple cared about. When one is in minority, better leave. > Which since it's win10 only there's no real chance of that happening anytime soon. I remember hearing the same about DX 10/Vista, DX 11/Windows 7 and how GNU/Linux would save the world of gaming with SteamOS and here we are. > Neither does DX12. I guess you don't follow XBox SDK news, UWP is irrelevant in XBox context.
    - kllrnohj 9y ago
      > I remember hearing the same about DX 10/Vista, DX 11/Windows 7 And DX 10 & 11 adoption took forever to happen. Those claims were completely accurate. The difference now is that Vulkan is actually good with good tools, debugging, and support (probably because it came out of AMD instead of Khronos), so DX12 brings nothing to the table other than reduced platform support including worse support on Windows. Particularly since both are massive breaking API changes, so you're basically starting from scratch anyway not just porting over your DX11 code to DX12. I didn't claim GNU/Linux would save the world, so why are you trotting out that claim as if I did? > I guess you don't follow XBox SDK news, UWP is irrelevant in XBox context. Huh? I literally said "Console devs aren't writing for UWP nor for Direct3D." as the very next sentence. So I'm obviously aware of that, why are you pretending I'm not?
      - pjmlp 9y ago
        > I didn't claim GNU/Linux would save the world, so why are you trotting out that claim as if I did? Because it is the only OS where Vulkan is actually relevant in practice. Also Vulkan tools only look good to developers that never used graphical debugging tools outside OpenGL, specially in regarding to shader debugging and frame level information. > Huh? I literally said "Console devs aren't writing for UWP nor for Direct3D." as the very next sentence. So I'm obviously aware of that, why are you pretending I'm not? Because you reveal not knowing about DirectX, by mentioning Direct3D, which has died long time ago and then go on to compare UWP and DirectX 12 to XNA. While what XBox game developers care about is XBox SDK, which already has support for DirectX 12.

pjmlp 9y ago

> Except OpenCL was more like Metal - designed by Apple, pushed by Apple, used by nobody. Because Apple could not stand Khronos politics. Also Apple isn't to blame Khronos could not make something as usable as CUDA. Really. only now they start to care about C alternatives for GPGPU?! > Currently all signs point towards Vulkan edging out DX12 in the Windows gaming market. Vulkan and OpenGL don't work in UWP, which is the future of Windows application model, nor on XBox.

kllrnohj 9y ago
> Also Apple isn't to blame Khronos could not make something as usable as CUDA. Apple is the one that developed OpenCL. Apple submitted OpenCL to Khronos. So if Apple isn't to blame then who is? > Vulkan and OpenGL don't work in UWP, which is the future of Windows application model It's only the future if applications adopt it. Which since it's win10 only there's no real chance of that happening anytime soon. Keep in mind Steam is the dominate marketplace for gaming on Windows, not the Microsoft app store (followed by a few other stores - Origin, Battle.net, etc...). So what Microsoft wants to happen is pretty irrelevant to what will actually happen since nobody really cares about Microsoft's store. > Vulkan and OpenGL don't work [...] on XBox. Neither does DX12. Console devs aren't writing for UWP nor for Direct3D. UWP on xbox sounds like that old XNA thing - something for maybe indie devs but since indie devs now have a choice of engines to pick from they probably will care even less now than they did back when XNA was a thing.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  > Apple is the one that developed OpenCL. Apple submitted OpenCL to Khronos. So if Apple isn't to blame then who is? The Khronos group that wanted OpenCL to look something else than what Apple cared about. When one is in minority, better leave. > Which since it's win10 only there's no real chance of that happening anytime soon. I remember hearing the same about DX 10/Vista, DX 11/Windows 7 and how GNU/Linux would save the world of gaming with SteamOS and here we are. > Neither does DX12. I guess you don't follow XBox SDK news, UWP is irrelevant in XBox context.
  - kllrnohj 9y ago
    > I remember hearing the same about DX 10/Vista, DX 11/Windows 7 And DX 10 & 11 adoption took forever to happen. Those claims were completely accurate. The difference now is that Vulkan is actually good with good tools, debugging, and support (probably because it came out of AMD instead of Khronos), so DX12 brings nothing to the table other than reduced platform support including worse support on Windows. Particularly since both are massive breaking API changes, so you're basically starting from scratch anyway not just porting over your DX11 code to DX12. I didn't claim GNU/Linux would save the world, so why are you trotting out that claim as if I did? > I guess you don't follow XBox SDK news, UWP is irrelevant in XBox context. Huh? I literally said "Console devs aren't writing for UWP nor for Direct3D." as the very next sentence. So I'm obviously aware of that, why are you pretending I'm not?
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      > I didn't claim GNU/Linux would save the world, so why are you trotting out that claim as if I did? Because it is the only OS where Vulkan is actually relevant in practice. Also Vulkan tools only look good to developers that never used graphical debugging tools outside OpenGL, specially in regarding to shader debugging and frame level information. > Huh? I literally said "Console devs aren't writing for UWP nor for Direct3D." as the very next sentence. So I'm obviously aware of that, why are you pretending I'm not? Because you reveal not knowing about DirectX, by mentioning Direct3D, which has died long time ago and then go on to compare UWP and DirectX 12 to XNA. While what XBox game developers care about is XBox SDK, which already has support for DirectX 12.