4 ms·

The very same could be said about women being able to vote, same sex marriage or in the US a black guy using the same restrooms as white people or being the POT

by bcncit 9y ago

The very same could be said about women being able to vote, same sex marriage or in the US a black guy using the same restrooms as white people or being the POTUS. All these things were illegal by laws backed and supported by the highest, most sensible and most respected authorities back in the time, even during centuries. But it was the determination of people to be able to make all these illegal things fully legal nowadays. This is progress. If people wants, anything is possible. Laws are to serve people, and if they do not work, they should be changed. People can even change a constitution. To help you fully understand the context, the Spanish constitution was written only 3 years after a military dictatorship that lasted 40 years (2 generations) with many people afraid of the military coming back and the police charging in people's demonstrations. I do not know if you ever have had to run in a demonstration with a policeman running behind you with a gun with a clear intent to shoot you. I did and believe me, it is really scary. You even develop a sense of foreigness for certain symbols. The Spanish constitution can and should be changed to meet the needs of people in the 21st century. The one we have now is the bastard child of the turmoil after the military dictatorship.

faragon 9y ago
The US made a war against the "White Separatism" (Confederate States of America), in order to protect the US Constitution and citizen rights. Even in more recent times, e.g. in 1955 the US Constitution protected Rosa Parks against those same xenophobic supremacists that lost the American Civil War, and were using their regional power in order to impose ethnic totalitarianism. So think your argument twice, and think if you're really on the side of the "good ones", defending individual rights, or on the ethnic totalitarian side, defending "tradition" vs civil rights. Another example: the National Guard (US Army) forced the acceptance of black students, in order to ensure their rights, honoring the US Constitution, and the rule of law. In the same way, I hope the Spain Constitution will prevail, ensuring the rights of the citizens. For the long term, I wish some kind of United States of Europe, for even better civil rights protection, against disloyal regional administrations with a hidden ethnic/separatist agenda against the rule of law (e.g. like current French and German legislations, where disloyal/separatist regional governments are explicitly forbidden in their Constitutions).
- bcncit 9y ago
  I love immigration. I loved it when it was people from Spain 30 or 40 years ago and I love it now from other countries, such as Morocco, China, Pakistan or Europe, both legal and illegal. I helped illegal immigrants with their paperwork to become legal immigrants. I do believe that the avalanche of ex-pats that decided to settle in Barcelona in the last 50-years has allowed Catalans to enjoy a more cosmopolitan environment. I even hired some of these ex-pats. I thought about twice per your request, and I'm afraid that with my support for Catalonia's self-determination rights I'm defending individual rights. Otherwise, I would become the first ethnic totalitarian on Earth who loved immigration and helped immigrants to settle. How do you like immigration yourself? I'm asking because the Head of the Partido Popular (Spanish central government) in Catalonia hates it [1], he is a declared xenophobe and such proneness to xenophobia often permeates to other supporters of Partido Popular and similar right-wing parties. [1] http://ccaa.elpais.com/ccaa/2015/07/28/catalunya/1438078282_063848.html http://ccaa.elpais.com/ccaa/2015/07/28/catalunya/1438078282_...
  - faragon 9y ago
    You "love" immigration, but you endorse the monolingual Catalan school, despite being the language of a minority of the citizens in the region. Great "democracy" example (democracy is not just "voting" -many dictatorships allowed to "vote" to cut rights-, is the rule of law and respecting people's rights). For your information, I do like immigration, and I'm in favor of trilingual school in the Catalan region of Spain (Spanish, Catalan, English), and the more immigration coming to Spain, the better for the country, that would mean that the economy is recovering and people is willing to bet for it. BTW, you can not judge an organization based on the opinions of one person (even if what you say about that person could be true, or not). Xenophobe examples by the Catalan nationalism are endless. I know the Catalan nationalism arguments, and I can dismount them one by one. So you're wasting your time with your propaganda on me.
- kafkaesq 9y ago
  The US made a war against the "White Separatism" (Confederate States of America), in order to protect the US Constitution and citizen rights. Well, there was a bit more to it than that. If it had just been a matter of the Constitution being flaunted, and citizens being denied their rights... we might have just had a prolonged crisis, with a long period of generalized instability and violence towards minorities (kind of like we seem to be entering, in the present day). But unfortunately the CSA had to go out of their way to initiate an all-out armed provocation with the Union, which basically forced the latter's hand, by that point. You know, this little ruckus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Sumter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Sumter In any case all this post-facto niceness about "protecting the Constitution" and all is -- just that. Invented after the fact, to help the nation recover from what was (at the time) one of the most devastating armed conflicts the planet had hitherto known.

by bcncit 9y ago

faragon 9y ago

The US made a war against the "White Separatism" (Confederate States of America), in order to protect the US Constitution and citizen rights. Even in more recent times, e.g. in 1955 the US Constitution protected Rosa Parks against those same xenophobic supremacists that lost the American Civil War, and were using their regional power in order to impose ethnic totalitarianism. So think your argument twice, and think if you're really on the side of the "good ones", defending individual rights, or on the ethnic totalitarian side, defending "tradition" vs civil rights. Another example: the National Guard (US Army) forced the acceptance of black students, in order to ensure their rights, honoring the US Constitution, and the rule of law. In the same way, I hope the Spain Constitution will prevail, ensuring the rights of the citizens. For the long term, I wish some kind of United States of Europe, for even better civil rights protection, against disloyal regional administrations with a hidden ethnic/separatist agenda against the rule of law (e.g. like current French and German legislations, where disloyal/separatist regional governments are explicitly forbidden in their Constitutions).

bcncit 9y ago
I love immigration. I loved it when it was people from Spain 30 or 40 years ago and I love it now from other countries, such as Morocco, China, Pakistan or Europe, both legal and illegal. I helped illegal immigrants with their paperwork to become legal immigrants. I do believe that the avalanche of ex-pats that decided to settle in Barcelona in the last 50-years has allowed Catalans to enjoy a more cosmopolitan environment. I even hired some of these ex-pats. I thought about twice per your request, and I'm afraid that with my support for Catalonia's self-determination rights I'm defending individual rights. Otherwise, I would become the first ethnic totalitarian on Earth who loved immigration and helped immigrants to settle. How do you like immigration yourself? I'm asking because the Head of the Partido Popular (Spanish central government) in Catalonia hates it [1], he is a declared xenophobe and such proneness to xenophobia often permeates to other supporters of Partido Popular and similar right-wing parties. [1] http://ccaa.elpais.com/ccaa/2015/07/28/catalunya/1438078282_063848.html http://ccaa.elpais.com/ccaa/2015/07/28/catalunya/1438078282_...
- faragon 9y ago
  You "love" immigration, but you endorse the monolingual Catalan school, despite being the language of a minority of the citizens in the region. Great "democracy" example (democracy is not just "voting" -many dictatorships allowed to "vote" to cut rights-, is the rule of law and respecting people's rights). For your information, I do like immigration, and I'm in favor of trilingual school in the Catalan region of Spain (Spanish, Catalan, English), and the more immigration coming to Spain, the better for the country, that would mean that the economy is recovering and people is willing to bet for it. BTW, you can not judge an organization based on the opinions of one person (even if what you say about that person could be true, or not). Xenophobe examples by the Catalan nationalism are endless. I know the Catalan nationalism arguments, and I can dismount them one by one. So you're wasting your time with your propaganda on me.
kafkaesq 9y ago
The US made a war against the "White Separatism" (Confederate States of America), in order to protect the US Constitution and citizen rights. Well, there was a bit more to it than that. If it had just been a matter of the Constitution being flaunted, and citizens being denied their rights... we might have just had a prolonged crisis, with a long period of generalized instability and violence towards minorities (kind of like we seem to be entering, in the present day). But unfortunately the CSA had to go out of their way to initiate an all-out armed provocation with the Union, which basically forced the latter's hand, by that point. You know, this little ruckus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Sumter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Sumter In any case all this post-facto niceness about "protecting the Constitution" and all is -- just that. Invented after the fact, to help the nation recover from what was (at the time) one of the most devastating armed conflicts the planet had hitherto known.