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this will fly likely under the same rules as red light cameras which send a ticket to the owner regardless of who is driving. you "car/phone/spirit/thoughts" we

this will fly likely under the same rules as red light cameras which send a ticket to the owner regardless of who is driving. you "car/phone/spirit/thoughts" were there so you are considered there. going to be interesting if the government loses the case if rules and regulation are pushed through Congress mandating availability. they could try to declare it public property since it does pass through public airspace/radio space. all sorts of angles they can push. (its coming, just when and with what protections for our privacy will be most important)

rayiner 9y ago
> this will fly likely under the same rules as red light cameras which send a ticket to the owner regardless of who is driving. you "car/phone/spirit/thoughts" were there so you are considered there In most states, the red light ordinance makes the driver liable, not the owner. There is no "you were there in proxy" rule of the sort you suggest. The law merely creates a rebuttable presumption that the owner was driving. Also, Courts have upheld the presumption because red light tickets are civil infractions, not criminal penalties. The due process clause recognizes that the amount of process "due" (i.e. warranted, or appropriate in a given context) depends on the magnitude of the deprivation of property rights at issue. Civil infractions thus create lower due process concerns than criminal cases. In this case, there was no similar presumption along the lines of: "your phone was here, therefore you were here." It was simply circumstantial evidence of the sort regularly used in criminal prosecutions (e.g. your business card was found at the murder scene). The real concern here is an evidentiary issue. Cell tower tracking isn't very precise. Courts need to make sure that the jury appropriately understands the lack of precision in the data. Courts are often very bad at this. E.g. courts often don't permit defendants to argue to the jury that, even though the probability of a false random match in DNA testing is remote in theory, in practice the odds of wrong results due to lab error are astronomically higher (almost 1 in 100).

rayiner 9y ago

> this will fly likely under the same rules as red light cameras which send a ticket to the owner regardless of who is driving. you "car/phone/spirit/thoughts" were there so you are considered there In most states, the red light ordinance makes the driver liable, not the owner. There is no "you were there in proxy" rule of the sort you suggest. The law merely creates a rebuttable presumption that the owner was driving. Also, Courts have upheld the presumption because red light tickets are civil infractions, not criminal penalties. The due process clause recognizes that the amount of process "due" (i.e. warranted, or appropriate in a given context) depends on the magnitude of the deprivation of property rights at issue. Civil infractions thus create lower due process concerns than criminal cases. In this case, there was no similar presumption along the lines of: "your phone was here, therefore you were here." It was simply circumstantial evidence of the sort regularly used in criminal prosecutions (e.g. your business card was found at the murder scene). The real concern here is an evidentiary issue. Cell tower tracking isn't very precise. Courts need to make sure that the jury appropriately understands the lack of precision in the data. Courts are often very bad at this. E.g. courts often don't permit defendants to argue to the jury that, even though the probability of a false random match in DNA testing is remote in theory, in practice the odds of wrong results due to lab error are astronomically higher (almost 1 in 100).