4 ms·

the kids were never fooled. They knew exactly who had really won Yep, all that positive reinforcement only taught us not to trust praise. At least, that was m

by dkarl 9y ago

the kids were never fooled. They knew exactly who had really won Yep, all that positive reinforcement only taught us not to trust praise. At least, that was my response. Praise just reinforced how I already felt about myself. If I felt I was doing well, praise felt like confirmation, and it felt great. If I didn't feel I had done something to deserve it, praise felt awful, like I had been called out as being especially pathetic. My knee-jerk reaction to an unexpected compliment is still to feel humiliated and angry. I've learned to think twice and sometimes realize, yeah, I did handle that well, or yeah, this is a nice outfit, but I still have that instant of feeling attacked before I control my reaction. I think that's a lesson to learn: you can't erase the difference between success and failure. If you try, you just end up confusing them. A kid who hears praise every time he fucks up learns to associate praise with failure and learns there's no way to deal with failure except to pretend it didn't happen.

logfromblammo 9y ago
I am also uncomfortable with compliments. About the only praise I can stand now comes with a bonus check attached, because that confirms the [additional] value that person placed on my effort. Even if you're faking that enthusiasm, I still get to spend the money. Otherwise, if you valued my performance at the cost of printing up a certificate on paper that is slightly heavier and more cream-colored than normal copy paper, and with an injection-molded bit of plastic that has an engraved plaque glued to it, I would feel about $25 worth of honored. That crap works on my father, though. He likes everyone to know how great and interesting he is. For me, nothing is worse than getting a compliment when I don't think I deserve one, and if I already think I deserve one, I don't actually need to get any, because I'm already feeling great.
Evolved 9y ago
I agree and furthermore I think that excessive praise even when someone is just doing what's expected of them can be harmful. Anecdotal: My boss used to go around praising people in general for just doing their jobs. I was even on the receiving end of so many "have I told you how awesome you are" or "I hope you realize how valuable you are to the operation" canned responses that, although it was nice to hear, it lost its luster eventually. I ended up replying every time he'd do this with a motion of opening a beer can accompanied with a verbal "psshtt" sound and adding in a "thanks for the can of praise." It was meant in jest and he took it in stride and understood it wasn't meant with any malice. I was just poking a little fun at the observations he was making. The point is, when you do it to too many people, too often, and for doing nothing but what's expected of them, it starts to ring hollow eventually. Anecdotal: I observed something about myself which I found peculiar. A friend of a friend on Facebook, whom I observe to have quite intelligent DH4+ responses to comments even if the masses usually come back with a DH0 or DH1 response. I found myself observing his responses to other folks' comments and throwing in my own $.02. I discovered that the quality of my responses was greatly elevated when replying to him, clearly attempting to engage him at his level. This was sometimes rewarded with a 'like' from him, and sometimes not. When receiving a 'like' it resulted in a physiological response from me akin to a very light drug high.
- selestify 9y ago
  What does DH stand for?
  - photojosh 9y ago
    Apparently "disagreement hierarchy". Took me quite some time to find the magic combination of search terms. Of course HN assumes intimate knowledge with PG's works. ;) http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html
    - Evolved 9y ago
      My apologies. Yes, that's the correct reference. I learned about Paul Graham via several HN posts years ago and his explanation isn't unnecessarily complicated so I figured his work was widely known/understood. P.S. when I put "dh0 response" into Google, the first link is Paul Graham's How to Disagree
      - photojosh 9y ago
        Your Google-fu is better than mine. I tried "DH0", then "DH0 DH1", "dh disagreement", "dh levels", and it wasn't until "dh0 dh1 levels" that I got my answer. :)
- Evolved 9y ago
  Source: http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html

by dkarl 9y ago

logfromblammo 9y ago

I am also uncomfortable with compliments. About the only praise I can stand now comes with a bonus check attached, because that confirms the [additional] value that person placed on my effort. Even if you're faking that enthusiasm, I still get to spend the money. Otherwise, if you valued my performance at the cost of printing up a certificate on paper that is slightly heavier and more cream-colored than normal copy paper, and with an injection-molded bit of plastic that has an engraved plaque glued to it, I would feel about $25 worth of honored. That crap works on my father, though. He likes everyone to know how great and interesting he is. For me, nothing is worse than getting a compliment when I don't think I deserve one, and if I already think I deserve one, I don't actually need to get any, because I'm already feeling great.

Evolved 9y ago

I agree and furthermore I think that excessive praise even when someone is just doing what's expected of them can be harmful. Anecdotal: My boss used to go around praising people in general for just doing their jobs. I was even on the receiving end of so many "have I told you how awesome you are" or "I hope you realize how valuable you are to the operation" canned responses that, although it was nice to hear, it lost its luster eventually. I ended up replying every time he'd do this with a motion of opening a beer can accompanied with a verbal "psshtt" sound and adding in a "thanks for the can of praise." It was meant in jest and he took it in stride and understood it wasn't meant with any malice. I was just poking a little fun at the observations he was making. The point is, when you do it to too many people, too often, and for doing nothing but what's expected of them, it starts to ring hollow eventually. Anecdotal: I observed something about myself which I found peculiar. A friend of a friend on Facebook, whom I observe to have quite intelligent DH4+ responses to comments even if the masses usually come back with a DH0 or DH1 response. I found myself observing his responses to other folks' comments and throwing in my own $.02. I discovered that the quality of my responses was greatly elevated when replying to him, clearly attempting to engage him at his level. This was sometimes rewarded with a 'like' from him, and sometimes not. When receiving a 'like' it resulted in a physiological response from me akin to a very light drug high.

selestify 9y ago
What does DH stand for?
- photojosh 9y ago
  Apparently "disagreement hierarchy". Took me quite some time to find the magic combination of search terms. Of course HN assumes intimate knowledge with PG's works. ;) http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html
  - Evolved 9y ago
    My apologies. Yes, that's the correct reference. I learned about Paul Graham via several HN posts years ago and his explanation isn't unnecessarily complicated so I figured his work was widely known/understood. P.S. when I put "dh0 response" into Google, the first link is Paul Graham's How to Disagree
    - photojosh 9y ago
      Your Google-fu is better than mine. I tried "DH0", then "DH0 DH1", "dh disagreement", "dh levels", and it wasn't until "dh0 dh1 levels" that I got my answer. :)
Evolved 9y ago
Source: http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html