4 ms·

I agree that what they posted was offensive. But we can't start holding graduating high school students to the same standards we hold world and business leaders

I agree that what they posted was offensive. But we can't start holding graduating high school students to the same standards we hold world and business leaders. Ironically, we didn't for Trump, but that's certainly the idea. Revoking one's admission to Harvard is a really rough way to teach the lesson of what you're supposed to and not supposed to say. College is the time to not only learn new ideas, but also to un-learn things that you may have learned in a toxic environment. I can say that I certainly did, and it's only fair that we allow others to fail in a similar way. I believe that actions like this only further foster the alt-right and do a great disservice to our current political atmosphere. These kids have no positive way to understand their punishment - they have been reprimanded by a power that controls their fate, without warning. The odds that they'll "learn" from their "mistake" is highly unlikely. Comparing this to fascism is a little heavy, but not out of line.

misingnoglic 9y ago
I don't think that standards should be lowered for high school seniors. These are people who are legally allowed to vote, join the army, buy guns, etc.., and for these people it's go to Harvard. They should know that it's unacceptable to share memes about sexual violence, racism, and whatnot, especially on Facebook. When I was in 6th grade (I'm 21 now), my school gave us the talk about the internet, saying that whatever you post on the internet is forever. This might have been exaggerated, but definitely not for a Facebook account that had your name attached to it, and a group chat that's directly splintered from your incoming Harvard class group page. At the same time, I have a bit of a personal story. When I was in 8th grade, I made a Facebook account, and uploaded a random picture with a random caption involving rape - at the time my friends and I used the word like when you beat someone at a video game... Yeah it was pretty bad. My mom found the picture and responded by screaming at me and basically taking my computer away for a while, and my Facebook deactivated for much longer. I didn't understand at the time why it was such a big deal (maybe more explaining could have happened) but that interaction both makes me cringe every time I think about it and might have been the best thing to happen to me. Maybe getting the acceptences revoked is just the kick in the ass that they need.
- misterbowfinger 9y ago
  Maybe getting the acceptances revoked is just the kick in the ass that they need. That is MAJORLY different then getting yelled at by your mom. If you asked any of these 10 kids if they'd rather 1) Get yelled at by an authority figure, or 2) Have your acceptance rescinded I guarantee all of them will choose option 1. By the way, you're very lucky to have a parent who cares enough to teach you valuable lesson.
  - misingnoglic 9y ago
    I'm not saying that they're equivalent. I'm just saying it's the kick in the ass they needed, because otherwise they would just be privileged guys going to Harvard, sharing offensive memes and not understanding why it's wrong until the next worst thing happens. Obviously the thing where their parents punish them is not happening anymore, they're adults now.
- cafard 9y ago
  At 18, you can't sign a lease without a co-signer, you probably can't rent a car. You can't purchase alcoholic beverages or tobacco products in the US. Yes, you can join the military, but there you spend time under very close supervision. Universities used to use the term "in loco parentis": I can see a deferral of admission being a suitable equivalent of screaming and taking the computer away.
- pdeuchler 9y ago
  And yet, they're young enough that many, probably the majority, require co-signers on their student loans. If we set out to send mixed signals about maturation to college students we couldn't have done a better job
- weberc2 9y ago
  When I was graduating high school not long before you, it was still socially acceptable to use gay slurs. The social change happened fast, and not evenly in all places. Society needs to have some grace of we aren't too have a huge group of people bitter about being punished for breaking a new social rule. Besides that, we have a tendency to oversimplify and assume every race-related thing is racism, so I don't trust or society to police speech.
objclxt 9y ago
Counterpoint: say you had been admitted to Harvard and were coming from Mexico, or were the victim of a sexual assault during high school. How would you feel if you found out that your new classmates had been sharing racist images, or memes about the abuse of children? What if one of those students had been placed as your freshman roommate? > College is the time to not only learn new ideas, but also to un-learn things that you may have learned in a toxic environment. Despite my counterpoint above, you are of course right. I knew of one very aggressive student at Harvard who went around putting posters up of dead fetuses to protest abortion and was against gay marriage - his family was extremely right wing, and that's what he was brought up to believe. Now he's out of the closet, living in SF, and is one of the most liberal people I know. That story may sound clichéd, but I promise you it's true. But at the same time, there must be a line drawn somewhere, surely? If I write an extremely offensive admissions essay claiming immigrants are sub-human I shouldn't expect to be admitted.
- misterbowfinger 9y ago
  But at the same time, there must be a line drawn somewhere, surely? Yes - it's fully reasonable for Harvard to rescind admission for someone who's a convicted felon, for example. But posting offensive memes on the internet isn't illegal. Saying racist/sexist things isn't illegal. It's certainly something to have a conversation about, but not to totally alter their future. If I write an extremely offensive admissions essay claiming immigrants are sub-human I shouldn't expect to be admitted. Absolutely! And if that is your submission to Harvard, that is entirely fair. I just don't think memes in a private Facebook group is something that you put up as your submission. Again, it's one thing if Harvard warned them, and they held their ground. It's another thing entirely to do it without warning, or a chance to explain themselves.
  - fao_ 9y ago
    > or a chance to explain themselves. You imply that media condoning racism, and sexual violence can be justified.
    - 9y ago
gdulli 9y ago
> The odds that they'll "learn" from their "mistake" is highly unlikely. Learning that your actions have consequences and that no one is responsible for facing those consequences but you is more valuable than any other single lesson they'd have learned in college. And they didn't even have to pay tuition to find that one out.
chickenfries 9y ago
> Revoking one's admission to Harvard is a really rough way to teach the lesson of what you're supposed to and not supposed to say. > Comparing this to fascism is a little heavy, but not out of line. Are these students already not submitting themselves to be judged by Harvard's exceptionally high standards? This isn't some good state school and these aren't students who have earned their place by paying taxes and getting good grades. If Harvard sees this kind of behavior, decides that they made a mistake when choosing these students (they want students who will represent them well for the rest of their life, and character is very much in play during college admissions)... I think it's more than fair to say that these students should lose their place to someone who hasn't so easily proven themselves as a risk to Harvard's brand.
drakonka 9y ago
I don't think one should have to be a world or business leader to know that this kind of behaviour is wholly inappropriate. Sometimes (often) real life doesn't pamper us with slaps on the wrist or warnings when we do something completely idiotic. And if they somehow did not realize their behaviour was inappropriate, maybe they weren't quite mentally acute enough for Harvard in the first place and just got filtered out early.

misingnoglic 9y ago

I don't think that standards should be lowered for high school seniors. These are people who are legally allowed to vote, join the army, buy guns, etc.., and for these people it's go to Harvard. They should know that it's unacceptable to share memes about sexual violence, racism, and whatnot, especially on Facebook. When I was in 6th grade (I'm 21 now), my school gave us the talk about the internet, saying that whatever you post on the internet is forever. This might have been exaggerated, but definitely not for a Facebook account that had your name attached to it, and a group chat that's directly splintered from your incoming Harvard class group page. At the same time, I have a bit of a personal story. When I was in 8th grade, I made a Facebook account, and uploaded a random picture with a random caption involving rape - at the time my friends and I used the word like when you beat someone at a video game... Yeah it was pretty bad. My mom found the picture and responded by screaming at me and basically taking my computer away for a while, and my Facebook deactivated for much longer. I didn't understand at the time why it was such a big deal (maybe more explaining could have happened) but that interaction both makes me cringe every time I think about it and might have been the best thing to happen to me. Maybe getting the acceptences revoked is just the kick in the ass that they need.

misterbowfinger 9y ago
Maybe getting the acceptances revoked is just the kick in the ass that they need. That is MAJORLY different then getting yelled at by your mom. If you asked any of these 10 kids if they'd rather 1) Get yelled at by an authority figure, or 2) Have your acceptance rescinded I guarantee all of them will choose option 1. By the way, you're very lucky to have a parent who cares enough to teach you valuable lesson.
- misingnoglic 9y ago
  I'm not saying that they're equivalent. I'm just saying it's the kick in the ass they needed, because otherwise they would just be privileged guys going to Harvard, sharing offensive memes and not understanding why it's wrong until the next worst thing happens. Obviously the thing where their parents punish them is not happening anymore, they're adults now.
cafard 9y ago
At 18, you can't sign a lease without a co-signer, you probably can't rent a car. You can't purchase alcoholic beverages or tobacco products in the US. Yes, you can join the military, but there you spend time under very close supervision. Universities used to use the term "in loco parentis": I can see a deferral of admission being a suitable equivalent of screaming and taking the computer away.
pdeuchler 9y ago
And yet, they're young enough that many, probably the majority, require co-signers on their student loans. If we set out to send mixed signals about maturation to college students we couldn't have done a better job
weberc2 9y ago
When I was graduating high school not long before you, it was still socially acceptable to use gay slurs. The social change happened fast, and not evenly in all places. Society needs to have some grace of we aren't too have a huge group of people bitter about being punished for breaking a new social rule. Besides that, we have a tendency to oversimplify and assume every race-related thing is racism, so I don't trust or society to police speech.

objclxt 9y ago

Counterpoint: say you had been admitted to Harvard and were coming from Mexico, or were the victim of a sexual assault during high school. How would you feel if you found out that your new classmates had been sharing racist images, or memes about the abuse of children? What if one of those students had been placed as your freshman roommate? > College is the time to not only learn new ideas, but also to un-learn things that you may have learned in a toxic environment. Despite my counterpoint above, you are of course right. I knew of one very aggressive student at Harvard who went around putting posters up of dead fetuses to protest abortion and was against gay marriage - his family was extremely right wing, and that's what he was brought up to believe. Now he's out of the closet, living in SF, and is one of the most liberal people I know. That story may sound clichéd, but I promise you it's true. But at the same time, there must be a line drawn somewhere, surely? If I write an extremely offensive admissions essay claiming immigrants are sub-human I shouldn't expect to be admitted.

misterbowfinger 9y ago
But at the same time, there must be a line drawn somewhere, surely? Yes - it's fully reasonable for Harvard to rescind admission for someone who's a convicted felon, for example. But posting offensive memes on the internet isn't illegal. Saying racist/sexist things isn't illegal. It's certainly something to have a conversation about, but not to totally alter their future. If I write an extremely offensive admissions essay claiming immigrants are sub-human I shouldn't expect to be admitted. Absolutely! And if that is your submission to Harvard, that is entirely fair. I just don't think memes in a private Facebook group is something that you put up as your submission. Again, it's one thing if Harvard warned them, and they held their ground. It's another thing entirely to do it without warning, or a chance to explain themselves.
- fao_ 9y ago
  > or a chance to explain themselves. You imply that media condoning racism, and sexual violence can be justified.
  - 9y ago

gdulli 9y ago

> The odds that they'll "learn" from their "mistake" is highly unlikely. Learning that your actions have consequences and that no one is responsible for facing those consequences but you is more valuable than any other single lesson they'd have learned in college. And they didn't even have to pay tuition to find that one out.

chickenfries 9y ago

> Revoking one's admission to Harvard is a really rough way to teach the lesson of what you're supposed to and not supposed to say. > Comparing this to fascism is a little heavy, but not out of line. Are these students already not submitting themselves to be judged by Harvard's exceptionally high standards? This isn't some good state school and these aren't students who have earned their place by paying taxes and getting good grades. If Harvard sees this kind of behavior, decides that they made a mistake when choosing these students (they want students who will represent them well for the rest of their life, and character is very much in play during college admissions)... I think it's more than fair to say that these students should lose their place to someone who hasn't so easily proven themselves as a risk to Harvard's brand.

drakonka 9y ago

I don't think one should have to be a world or business leader to know that this kind of behaviour is wholly inappropriate. Sometimes (often) real life doesn't pamper us with slaps on the wrist or warnings when we do something completely idiotic. And if they somehow did not realize their behaviour was inappropriate, maybe they weren't quite mentally acute enough for Harvard in the first place and just got filtered out early.