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>Identical people come to similar conclusions. Folks who have raised this idea of "diversity of thought" think that it adequately addresses this idea that diver

>Identical people come to similar conclusions. Folks who have raised this idea of "diversity of thought" think that it adequately addresses this idea that diversity is a value add for software by saying, "Well it's all about thought." But those initial conditions our minds are so sensitive to are not easily ignored. I don't know what is being said here. Are you saying that women or people of color would implement software differently from a white male? How would writing an encryption app differ if a women wrote it? You seem to think that there is something being missed by the Poster you are replying to but I can't figure out what it is exactly.

KirinDave 9y ago
> I don't know what is being said here. Are you saying that women or people of color would implement software differently from a white male? Fair enough. This is a very broad question though. The answer is "yes", but this doesn't imply that any specific algorithm would be more associated with women or men. It implies that when it comes to deciding WHAT to make, decisions may end up being different. Software, even libraries, is a lot more than selecting an algorithm and implementing it. Everything from setting a feature calendar to implementation are shaped by people's perceptions of who their "customer" (if you will excuse the product metaphor) are. > You seem to think that there is something being missed by the Poster you are replying to but I can't figure out what it is exactly. I think the poster is holding a pretty untenable position but I'm trying to softball it, because I could be much harsher about it. You cannot advocate for diversity and then suggest that things that would substantially impact someone's experience wouldn't shape their thought. Unless the poster genuinely believes that racism and sexism don't exist in our society or industry, that kind of experience MUST shape people's experiences. And if they do believe that it doesn't, it's a fantasy world they're living in. But of course I'd rather not pick a fight this way. It's not terribly productive on Hacker News, I've learned, even if it's true. When it comes to matters of race and gender, folks here are much less interested in outcomes and a "tell-it-like-it-is" mindset than with, say, how to architect a small distributed system for growth.
- ManFromUranus 9y ago
  Do you consider it a solution that if somebody doesn't like an OSS project's current direction, or contributor list, they could fork it and do whatever they want with the fork? >I think the poster is holding a pretty untenable position but I'm trying to softball it, because I could be much harsher about it. I don't understand how that position is untenable. It seems to be a meritocratic line of thought, IMO. There could be a problem with how "merit" is calculated? Or you believe that ideas, contributions which have merit are denied / ignored because of the gender/ethnicity of the contributor?
  - KirinDave 9y ago
    > Do you consider it a solution that if somebody doesn't like an OSS project's current direction, or contributor list, they could fork it and do whatever they want with the fork? It can be, but is not a universal solution. > It seems to be a meritocratic line of thought, IMO. There could be a problem with how "merit" is calculated? A strictly meritocratic world is probably not one people actually want, but even accepting that... do we even have a well-structured and universally agreed-upon definition of merit? I submit we don't, for software.

KirinDave 9y ago

> I don't know what is being said here. Are you saying that women or people of color would implement software differently from a white male? Fair enough. This is a very broad question though. The answer is "yes", but this doesn't imply that any specific algorithm would be more associated with women or men. It implies that when it comes to deciding WHAT to make, decisions may end up being different. Software, even libraries, is a lot more than selecting an algorithm and implementing it. Everything from setting a feature calendar to implementation are shaped by people's perceptions of who their "customer" (if you will excuse the product metaphor) are. > You seem to think that there is something being missed by the Poster you are replying to but I can't figure out what it is exactly. I think the poster is holding a pretty untenable position but I'm trying to softball it, because I could be much harsher about it. You cannot advocate for diversity and then suggest that things that would substantially impact someone's experience wouldn't shape their thought. Unless the poster genuinely believes that racism and sexism don't exist in our society or industry, that kind of experience MUST shape people's experiences. And if they do believe that it doesn't, it's a fantasy world they're living in. But of course I'd rather not pick a fight this way. It's not terribly productive on Hacker News, I've learned, even if it's true. When it comes to matters of race and gender, folks here are much less interested in outcomes and a "tell-it-like-it-is" mindset than with, say, how to architect a small distributed system for growth.

ManFromUranus 9y ago
Do you consider it a solution that if somebody doesn't like an OSS project's current direction, or contributor list, they could fork it and do whatever they want with the fork? >I think the poster is holding a pretty untenable position but I'm trying to softball it, because I could be much harsher about it. I don't understand how that position is untenable. It seems to be a meritocratic line of thought, IMO. There could be a problem with how "merit" is calculated? Or you believe that ideas, contributions which have merit are denied / ignored because of the gender/ethnicity of the contributor?
- KirinDave 9y ago
  > Do you consider it a solution that if somebody doesn't like an OSS project's current direction, or contributor list, they could fork it and do whatever they want with the fork? It can be, but is not a universal solution. > It seems to be a meritocratic line of thought, IMO. There could be a problem with how "merit" is calculated? A strictly meritocratic world is probably not one people actually want, but even accepting that... do we even have a well-structured and universally agreed-upon definition of merit? I submit we don't, for software.