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This could almost be seen as a trojan horse for Amazon to break into new markets without having to do any of the heavy lifting Google and Apple do. Increased br

This could almost be seen as a trojan horse for Amazon to break into new markets without having to do any of the heavy lifting Google and Apple do. Increased brand recognition + Amazon's growing developer community interested in bringing apps to their platforms only reinforces their clout in consumer technologies. As the app stores of old fade away in importance their efforts in consumer hardware and developer communities are being further pushed into prominence. I.e. eventually they won't need Google's play store and can more ambitiously take on the market.

sangnoir 9y ago
> This could almost be seen as a trojan horse for Amazon to break into new markets without having to do any of the heavy lifting Google and Apple do...eventually they won't need Google's play store and can more ambitiously take on the market. You've got it backwards - Amazon has been using a forked Android-without-Google-services for years now across many products, with varying levels of success. Kindle, Fire tablet, Fire phone, Fire TV, Echo, Echo Dot, and most recently Echo Show all run an Android fork[1]. Only now have they allegedly chosen to use official Android with Google services. Perhaps they have decided that passing Androids CTS (and getting Google's blessing) is necessary for a successful phone? Or perhaps keeping their fork updated with Android HEAD is proving to be a challenge because the latest Fire OS is based off a 3-year old Android 5 (lollipop). 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_OS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_OS
- wastedhours 9y ago
  Think the OP still had it the right way around, even if it's their second bite of the cherry. They failed with the Fire Phone to really make inroads as the value proposition wasn't there - they went too hard into their walled garden and priced themselves out of developing markets. Now this time they're trying a softer, longer term approach, especially in places where they don't have the reach at the moment to get lock in from day one. They have the Android development chops, the vision for where they want to get to, and the infra to start devolving phone features to the cloud, now all they need to do is get some dedicated users. It's resetting their starting point for sure, but not sure it's an admittance their vision is wrong.
- abuani 9y ago
  How much of it do you think deals particularly around security updates? Samsung is getting a lot of flack for the OS they use in embedded devices being notoriously behind on security updates(think TV's, Fridges, appliances etc), that it may not be worth the potential headache of being the one to roll their own android and not patch security updates promptly. It seems to me a logical step to momentarily disband the competitive aspect of this market in an aim for higher security for all devices. It also is a nice easy PR win for Amazon, reduces overall costs for them, and just have to accept Google possibly getting to double dip their feet in data that Amazon is actively collecting.
- iampims 9y ago
  Echo 1st Gen does not run Android. It is the only device running Linux among Amazon products. Source: echo team member
runn1ng 9y ago
They already tried that. The fact that most people don't really know they have their own Android version with their own weird Android "app store" shows you how successful they were. Not much.
Eridrus 9y ago
> As the app stores of old fade away in importance their efforts in consumer hardware and developer communities are being further pushed into prominence. I.e. eventually they won't need Google's play store and can more ambitiously take on the market. This might happen, but seems like wishful thinking. The web really damaged Windows, but the mobile web still has a looooong way to go to unseat mobile apps. No matter how much noise the big guys make about voice as the next platform, voice is not going to replace most apps any time soon since it is just too low bandwidth as an output channel.
- threeseed 9y ago
  It's bizarre thinking to be honest. iOS is never getting rid of the App Store and given that it is the lead development platform for most apps it still sets the direction for the industry. Which is perfect for Google because it cements their control over the Android ecosystem as well. If Amazon was smart they would go after Microsoft instead and try to build some smart, next-gen cross platform productivity and consumer apps backed by intelligent backend services. Control over user data is where the real money is.
  - dingbat 9y ago
    > If Amazon was smart its one thing to have alternative opinions about their strategy, but im not too sure about judging Amazon / Jeff Bezos as lacking in business smarts
  - wonder_bread 9y ago
    What I'm saying is Bezos & Co. might be gaming for the next generation of the handset. Bezos loves his 2-year runways so I doubt he's interested in any current smartphone ecosystem but in making inroads with consumers and developers. What good would it be for Amazon to go after Microsoft's bread and butter? Google's already made its move towards them (Microsoft) with Chrome OS so I doubt there's really going to much more room for another titan.

sangnoir 9y ago

> This could almost be seen as a trojan horse for Amazon to break into new markets without having to do any of the heavy lifting Google and Apple do...eventually they won't need Google's play store and can more ambitiously take on the market. You've got it backwards - Amazon has been using a forked Android-without-Google-services for years now across many products, with varying levels of success. Kindle, Fire tablet, Fire phone, Fire TV, Echo, Echo Dot, and most recently Echo Show all run an Android fork[1]. Only now have they allegedly chosen to use official Android with Google services. Perhaps they have decided that passing Androids CTS (and getting Google's blessing) is necessary for a successful phone? Or perhaps keeping their fork updated with Android HEAD is proving to be a challenge because the latest Fire OS is based off a 3-year old Android 5 (lollipop). 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_OS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_OS

wastedhours 9y ago
Think the OP still had it the right way around, even if it's their second bite of the cherry. They failed with the Fire Phone to really make inroads as the value proposition wasn't there - they went too hard into their walled garden and priced themselves out of developing markets. Now this time they're trying a softer, longer term approach, especially in places where they don't have the reach at the moment to get lock in from day one. They have the Android development chops, the vision for where they want to get to, and the infra to start devolving phone features to the cloud, now all they need to do is get some dedicated users. It's resetting their starting point for sure, but not sure it's an admittance their vision is wrong.
abuani 9y ago
How much of it do you think deals particularly around security updates? Samsung is getting a lot of flack for the OS they use in embedded devices being notoriously behind on security updates(think TV's, Fridges, appliances etc), that it may not be worth the potential headache of being the one to roll their own android and not patch security updates promptly. It seems to me a logical step to momentarily disband the competitive aspect of this market in an aim for higher security for all devices. It also is a nice easy PR win for Amazon, reduces overall costs for them, and just have to accept Google possibly getting to double dip their feet in data that Amazon is actively collecting.
iampims 9y ago
Echo 1st Gen does not run Android. It is the only device running Linux among Amazon products. Source: echo team member

runn1ng 9y ago

They already tried that. The fact that most people don't really know they have their own Android version with their own weird Android "app store" shows you how successful they were. Not much.

Eridrus 9y ago

> As the app stores of old fade away in importance their efforts in consumer hardware and developer communities are being further pushed into prominence. I.e. eventually they won't need Google's play store and can more ambitiously take on the market. This might happen, but seems like wishful thinking. The web really damaged Windows, but the mobile web still has a looooong way to go to unseat mobile apps. No matter how much noise the big guys make about voice as the next platform, voice is not going to replace most apps any time soon since it is just too low bandwidth as an output channel.

threeseed 9y ago
It's bizarre thinking to be honest. iOS is never getting rid of the App Store and given that it is the lead development platform for most apps it still sets the direction for the industry. Which is perfect for Google because it cements their control over the Android ecosystem as well. If Amazon was smart they would go after Microsoft instead and try to build some smart, next-gen cross platform productivity and consumer apps backed by intelligent backend services. Control over user data is where the real money is.
- dingbat 9y ago
  > If Amazon was smart its one thing to have alternative opinions about their strategy, but im not too sure about judging Amazon / Jeff Bezos as lacking in business smarts
- wonder_bread 9y ago
  What I'm saying is Bezos & Co. might be gaming for the next generation of the handset. Bezos loves his 2-year runways so I doubt he's interested in any current smartphone ecosystem but in making inroads with consumers and developers. What good would it be for Amazon to go after Microsoft's bread and butter? Google's already made its move towards them (Microsoft) with Chrome OS so I doubt there's really going to much more room for another titan.