3 ms·

You can believe in whatever you want, have aversion to symbols, think how special you are vs other co-citizens, etc.: your free-speech is protected by the Spani

You can believe in whatever you want, have aversion to symbols, think how special you are vs other co-citizens, etc.: your free-speech is protected by the Spanish Constitution, the UE, and the UN. Mine is protected, too, and in my opinion the Catalan region culture is pretty similar to the culture of the rest of Spain, and the ones painting the Catalan region as "different", in the ethic sense, lie, or simply don't consider the majority of the Catalan population as human beings having the same rights (check Catalan people family-names: are in the same proportion as the rest of Spain; you can check also religion, gastronomy, even trash-TV show taste is similar to the Spanish average, etc.). Regarding the "Catalan people", I am "Catalan people", too, and the only oppression I see in the Catalan region is the one pushed by the Catalan regional government towards forcing uniform ethnic brainwash from public administration and schools, in Catalan-only, instead of bilingual Spanish-Catalan. A reminder: not only Catalan-speakers -mother tongue- (35% of inhabitants of the Catalan region) have rights, Spanish-speakers (55% of inhabitants of the Catalan region) have rights, too. So next time you fight for your rights, be sure you're really fighting for your rights (I would endorse you), and not for quitting/removing/stealing other people's rights (I would not endorse you). Respect works both ways. Kind regards.

bcncit 9y ago
Sorry, I believe I misunderstood you. I thought you were _against_ granting the right of self-determination to Catalan people, that is, the people who lives in Catalonia whatever language they speak. I did not catch that you endorsed fighting for rights. Just wanted to clarify that I do not particularly support all Catalan Government policies, in fact, just a few of them. There are many important other rights that need to be addressed such as the right to die with dignity (this is long overdue) or the right receiving education in your language, at least for major languages such as Catalan, Spanish, Arabic or English. Please note that this is not an issue only local to Barcelona, this is an issue that also face people who speak Catalan, English or Arabic at home and live, for example, in Madrid and only receive education in Spanish (is that also "uniform ethnic brainwash"!?). My guess is that authorizities in Barcelona or Madrid do not grant this right as to avoid segregation, but we will not know unless they try it and see actual segregation. The other alternative of teaching everybody evenly in all significant languages in our society (Catalan, Spanish, Arabic and English) might overwhelm kids. I'm not sure if you have any actual experience with the Catalan education system or just read about it on the yellow press and that build your opinion to define it "uniform etnic brainwash". Would you share if you have any actual experience with it and what impact it had on you or your children? In my actual experience, my three children have been fully exposed to the "uniform ethnic brainwash" Catalan education and IMHO, their Spanish is better than their Catalan is, even when we speak Catalan at home. They have some knowledge of English, but they have no knowledge of Arabic.
- faragon 9y ago
  You can twist the words whatever you want, if that makes you happy. The self-determination right is only for very specific cases according the UN, and the Catalan region does not qualify for that. Also, the EU representatives have been very clear in that regard, as being an internal issue of Spain, and the Spanish Parliament already voted, including a majority of Catalan representatives, against a hypothetical secession, because being against the Constitution. For being short, I do support the Spanish Constitution, the rule of law, the Spanish government, the European Union, the NATO, and the United Nations.
  - bcncit 9y ago
    The very same could be said about women being able to vote, same sex marriage or in the US a black guy using the same restrooms as white people or being the POTUS. All these things were illegal by laws backed and supported by the highest, most sensible and most respected authorities back in the time, even during centuries. But it was the determination of people to be able to make all these illegal things fully legal nowadays. This is progress. If people wants, anything is possible. Laws are to serve people, and if they do not work, they should be changed. People can even change a constitution. To help you fully understand the context, the Spanish constitution was written only 3 years after a military dictatorship that lasted 40 years (2 generations) with many people afraid of the military coming back and the police charging in people's demonstrations. I do not know if you ever have had to run in a demonstration with a policeman running behind you with a gun with a clear intent to shoot you. I did and believe me, it is really scary. You even develop a sense of foreigness for certain symbols. The Spanish constitution can and should be changed to meet the needs of people in the 21st century. The one we have now is the bastard child of the turmoil after the military dictatorship.
    - faragon 9y ago
      The US made a war against the "White Separatism" (Confederate States of America), in order to protect the US Constitution and citizen rights. Even in more recent times, e.g. in 1955 the US Constitution protected Rosa Parks against those same xenophobic supremacists that lost the American Civil War, and were using their regional power in order to impose ethnic totalitarianism. So think your argument twice, and think if you're really on the side of the "good ones", defending individual rights, or on the ethnic totalitarian side, defending "tradition" vs civil rights. Another example: the National Guard (US Army) forced the acceptance of black students, in order to ensure their rights, honoring the US Constitution, and the rule of law. In the same way, I hope the Spain Constitution will prevail, ensuring the rights of the citizens. For the long term, I wish some kind of United States of Europe, for even better civil rights protection, against disloyal regional administrations with a hidden ethnic/separatist agenda against the rule of law (e.g. like current French and German legislations, where disloyal/separatist regional governments are explicitly forbidden in their Constitutions).

bcncit 9y ago

Sorry, I believe I misunderstood you. I thought you were _against_ granting the right of self-determination to Catalan people, that is, the people who lives in Catalonia whatever language they speak. I did not catch that you endorsed fighting for rights. Just wanted to clarify that I do not particularly support all Catalan Government policies, in fact, just a few of them. There are many important other rights that need to be addressed such as the right to die with dignity (this is long overdue) or the right receiving education in your language, at least for major languages such as Catalan, Spanish, Arabic or English. Please note that this is not an issue only local to Barcelona, this is an issue that also face people who speak Catalan, English or Arabic at home and live, for example, in Madrid and only receive education in Spanish (is that also "uniform ethnic brainwash"!?). My guess is that authorizities in Barcelona or Madrid do not grant this right as to avoid segregation, but we will not know unless they try it and see actual segregation. The other alternative of teaching everybody evenly in all significant languages in our society (Catalan, Spanish, Arabic and English) might overwhelm kids. I'm not sure if you have any actual experience with the Catalan education system or just read about it on the yellow press and that build your opinion to define it "uniform etnic brainwash". Would you share if you have any actual experience with it and what impact it had on you or your children? In my actual experience, my three children have been fully exposed to the "uniform ethnic brainwash" Catalan education and IMHO, their Spanish is better than their Catalan is, even when we speak Catalan at home. They have some knowledge of English, but they have no knowledge of Arabic.

faragon 9y ago
You can twist the words whatever you want, if that makes you happy. The self-determination right is only for very specific cases according the UN, and the Catalan region does not qualify for that. Also, the EU representatives have been very clear in that regard, as being an internal issue of Spain, and the Spanish Parliament already voted, including a majority of Catalan representatives, against a hypothetical secession, because being against the Constitution. For being short, I do support the Spanish Constitution, the rule of law, the Spanish government, the European Union, the NATO, and the United Nations.
- bcncit 9y ago
  The very same could be said about women being able to vote, same sex marriage or in the US a black guy using the same restrooms as white people or being the POTUS. All these things were illegal by laws backed and supported by the highest, most sensible and most respected authorities back in the time, even during centuries. But it was the determination of people to be able to make all these illegal things fully legal nowadays. This is progress. If people wants, anything is possible. Laws are to serve people, and if they do not work, they should be changed. People can even change a constitution. To help you fully understand the context, the Spanish constitution was written only 3 years after a military dictatorship that lasted 40 years (2 generations) with many people afraid of the military coming back and the police charging in people's demonstrations. I do not know if you ever have had to run in a demonstration with a policeman running behind you with a gun with a clear intent to shoot you. I did and believe me, it is really scary. You even develop a sense of foreigness for certain symbols. The Spanish constitution can and should be changed to meet the needs of people in the 21st century. The one we have now is the bastard child of the turmoil after the military dictatorship.
  - faragon 9y ago
    The US made a war against the "White Separatism" (Confederate States of America), in order to protect the US Constitution and citizen rights. Even in more recent times, e.g. in 1955 the US Constitution protected Rosa Parks against those same xenophobic supremacists that lost the American Civil War, and were using their regional power in order to impose ethnic totalitarianism. So think your argument twice, and think if you're really on the side of the "good ones", defending individual rights, or on the ethnic totalitarian side, defending "tradition" vs civil rights. Another example: the National Guard (US Army) forced the acceptance of black students, in order to ensure their rights, honoring the US Constitution, and the rule of law. In the same way, I hope the Spain Constitution will prevail, ensuring the rights of the citizens. For the long term, I wish some kind of United States of Europe, for even better civil rights protection, against disloyal regional administrations with a hidden ethnic/separatist agenda against the rule of law (e.g. like current French and German legislations, where disloyal/separatist regional governments are explicitly forbidden in their Constitutions).