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The issue isn't necessarily that he supports Trump, it's that he donated money to a group that knowingly shitposts, which if anything is an attack on free speec

by dajomu 9y ago

The issue isn't necessarily that he supports Trump, it's that he donated money to a group that knowingly shitposts, which if anything is an attack on free speech. A quote from that group: "shitposting is powerful and meme magic is real". The founders of the same group spread white supremacist and anti-semitic memes. Surely the problem with funding a group like that is that they are actively employing measures to reduce free speech or a balanced political discussion? In that context it's not someone who is using their free speech, but employing others to suppress it. That's the problem I have with Luckey's actions (and yes, a whole lot of other people's too).

FeepingCreature 9y ago
This is of course just another version of GPL vs. BSD. Attempt to maximize some measure of "total freedom" at the expense of some individual freedom, or just let everybody do what they want even if it harms the community?
angersock 9y ago
Shitposting doesn't deprive anybody else of their ability to speak. If their message is more captivating than stupid memes, it'll get through. The fact that a lot of messages aren't is maybe worth some reflection.
- onion2k 9y ago
  If their message is more captivating than stupid memes, it'll get through. Sadly that's not true. If there are millions of stupid messages then it's very hard to see the good ones. To use HN as an analogy, some brilliant stories never make it to the front page on a busy day because /newest is just moving too fast. In that sense shitposting does deprive people of speech by making it impossible for anyone to listen.
- pavlov 9y ago
  Shitposting is a DDoS on common sense. It blocks out valuable contributions and skews the discussion by establishing a fake norm.
gavanwoolery 9y ago
Yep, in fact he supposedly supports Ron Paul, but Nimble America is definitely a more Trump-ish, alt-right-ish type of thing. According to Luckey, they made some memes that he liked. Maybe they were not racist memes, but I do not know. Maybe Luckey did not know about some of their worse memes. Anyhow, he threw them a chunk of money. We can infer without greater evidence that Luckey is racist simply because he donated to something. All of that said, the one and only attack on free speech is censorship. Censorship comes in many forms, including the form of shaming people. I think what the alt-right does is dumb, but at the same time, they hide in their own dark corner of the internet and I never have to interact with them so I am fine carrying about my business. Luckey donating to Nimble America had a similar lack of effect on me.
- jaredklewis 9y ago
  Shaming people is censorship? I mean maybe, but then the spectrum is rather large. When I think censorship I think people being fined, thrown in cages, or even killed for saying or writing the wrong kind of thing. That is a very different thing than, "Shame on you! What would your mother think?"
  - wccrawford 9y ago
    I think we've reached a point in society where having your livelihood taken from you is the same as being jailed, aka "thrown in cages". The difference, of course, is that it isn't the government doing it. It's the general population. I'm of 2 minds about it because I don't want to support anyone that supports racism. But I also feel that people deserve second chances. People do learn from their mistakes, and they have to be allowed to continue on afterwards or there's no point in changing. I haven't heard of Luckey apologizing, but that isn't surprising because the media doesn't think that's good enough news to broadcast. They only publish the worst stuff, not the best. He might have done so and I'd have no idea.
    - shepardrtc 9y ago
      >I think we've reached a point in society where having your livelihood taken from you is the same as being jailed, aka "thrown in cages". >The difference, of course, is that it isn't the government doing it. It's the general population. That's society saying that one's behavior is unacceptable and that it won't do business with them. I find that perfectly acceptable. Its not being forced by a single entity, but rather a general consensus is reached among everyone. > I haven't heard of Luckey apologizing Because he hasn't.
psyc 9y ago
Shitposting is not 'an attack on free speech'. It's speech. What you're doing is doublespeak - also not an attack on free speech, merely an attack on logic.

by dajomu 9y ago

FeepingCreature 9y ago

This is of course just another version of GPL vs. BSD. Attempt to maximize some measure of "total freedom" at the expense of some individual freedom, or just let everybody do what they want even if it harms the community?

angersock 9y ago

Shitposting doesn't deprive anybody else of their ability to speak. If their message is more captivating than stupid memes, it'll get through. The fact that a lot of messages aren't is maybe worth some reflection.

onion2k 9y ago
If their message is more captivating than stupid memes, it'll get through. Sadly that's not true. If there are millions of stupid messages then it's very hard to see the good ones. To use HN as an analogy, some brilliant stories never make it to the front page on a busy day because /newest is just moving too fast. In that sense shitposting does deprive people of speech by making it impossible for anyone to listen.
pavlov 9y ago
Shitposting is a DDoS on common sense. It blocks out valuable contributions and skews the discussion by establishing a fake norm.

gavanwoolery 9y ago

Yep, in fact he supposedly supports Ron Paul, but Nimble America is definitely a more Trump-ish, alt-right-ish type of thing. According to Luckey, they made some memes that he liked. Maybe they were not racist memes, but I do not know. Maybe Luckey did not know about some of their worse memes. Anyhow, he threw them a chunk of money. We can infer without greater evidence that Luckey is racist simply because he donated to something. All of that said, the one and only attack on free speech is censorship. Censorship comes in many forms, including the form of shaming people. I think what the alt-right does is dumb, but at the same time, they hide in their own dark corner of the internet and I never have to interact with them so I am fine carrying about my business. Luckey donating to Nimble America had a similar lack of effect on me.

jaredklewis 9y ago
Shaming people is censorship? I mean maybe, but then the spectrum is rather large. When I think censorship I think people being fined, thrown in cages, or even killed for saying or writing the wrong kind of thing. That is a very different thing than, "Shame on you! What would your mother think?"
- wccrawford 9y ago
  I think we've reached a point in society where having your livelihood taken from you is the same as being jailed, aka "thrown in cages". The difference, of course, is that it isn't the government doing it. It's the general population. I'm of 2 minds about it because I don't want to support anyone that supports racism. But I also feel that people deserve second chances. People do learn from their mistakes, and they have to be allowed to continue on afterwards or there's no point in changing. I haven't heard of Luckey apologizing, but that isn't surprising because the media doesn't think that's good enough news to broadcast. They only publish the worst stuff, not the best. He might have done so and I'd have no idea.
  - shepardrtc 9y ago
    >I think we've reached a point in society where having your livelihood taken from you is the same as being jailed, aka "thrown in cages". >The difference, of course, is that it isn't the government doing it. It's the general population. That's society saying that one's behavior is unacceptable and that it won't do business with them. I find that perfectly acceptable. Its not being forced by a single entity, but rather a general consensus is reached among everyone. > I haven't heard of Luckey apologizing Because he hasn't.

psyc 9y ago

Shitposting is not 'an attack on free speech'. It's speech. What you're doing is doublespeak - also not an attack on free speech, merely an attack on logic.