6 ms·

Almost Every Kind of Wild Fish Is Infected with Worms (2016)

56 points by skolos 9y ago

skolos 9y ago
> some wild species of fish—like hake, herring, and mackerel—had an infection rate over 90 percent, but the study found no farmed fish to be infected with nematodes.. Did not expect to see the rate this high.
- ufo 9y ago
  It sounds about right. The world is full of parasites...
- pvaldes 9y ago
  Is true that farmed saltwater fish do not have Anisakidae nematodes normally, because they aren't feed with live bait normally and the life cycle of this nematode is not direct and can't be completed. On the other hand, I will take the flashing 90% infection rate with a grain of salt, for some reasons. First because this rate is not useful if we count together fishes with a 500 worms load, and fishes hosting one single tiny 1mm long worm. Second, because infection rate is heavily seasonal. Third, because parasite distribution is patched. If we speak of a single type of roundworm some stocks could be heavily affected, but most of them aren't. Mixing saltwater with freshwater and speaking of all parasites together the percent should be closer to 100%.
hartror 9y ago
> Still, this may be an issue that's more about squeamishness than safety. Of the 20,000 cases of nematode infection from eating fish reported globally, over 90 percent of them are in Japan. Unless you're susceptible to infection this is really about perception rather than health risks.
peterwwillis 9y ago
As with almost all Vice articles, this is heavy on the ick factor, light on useful information. This "journalist"'s only source was someone who literally just sold infected fish. Most parasites in fish can't adapt to humans, most can be safely digested, and commercially frozen fish will only have dead ones. So sushi or cooked dishes made from commercially frozen fish is basically fine. Worst case: a dead animal is in your food, which is already a dead animal. Less than 40 cases of humans infected with fish parasites are found in the USA each year. Wild freshwater and semi-freshwater (like Salmon) are the most likely infected fish. If you find wriggly worms in your take-out, you can actually remove the worms (yes, even if they are alive) and then cook the fish to an internal temperature of 145F for 15 seconds, and everything (larva + remaining worms) will be either dead or safe enough to eat. However, if this is takeout, and the worms are alive, you probably already ate live worms/parasites. It's funny that Vice didn't even include the really gross parts. Some people report feeling a tingling sensation when they eat raw or undercooked fish. This is the worms moving around. Often you can remove the worms from your mouth or esophagus, or vomit, to prevent infection.
- bestnameever 9y ago
  The ick factor is really turning me off of fish and I love fish. It might be safe but something about worms and parasites gives me the creeps. On top of that, it seems that many times the fish you order might not be the fish you receive. For someone that cares, I'm starting to find it confusing to keep up with what fish I want to avoid, and whether I should seek fresh or farmed, frozen, etc... http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/04/27/testing-shows-many-bay-area-restaurants-mislabeling-fish/ http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/04/27/testing-shows-ma...
  - peterwwillis 9y ago
    Refer to the Monterey Bay Aqauarium's Consumer Guides for the most ecologically responsible choices of fish. From those, cross reference with a list of "healthy fish" such as https://www.rodalesorganiclife.com/food/healthy-fish https://www.rodalesorganiclife.com/food/healthy-fish . As for "honest labeling", I just don't pay lots of money for fish. Culinary skill is more likely to make it taste great than exotic variety. I think you really shouldn't consider it so much, though. A lot of work is put into minimizing how "unsightly" our food is and it results in a lot of waste. Fruit and veggies have more parasites than fish, for example, and consumer-facing fish gets a lot of prep work before you ever get to see it.
bykovich2 9y ago
Eh.
rootsudo 9y ago
Not the main part of the article but why would anyone go to a Sushi restaurant if the owner isn't Japanese? Especially if they don't eat the food they serve? "I talked to Ryan Roadhouse, chef-owner of the lauded Japanese restaurant Nodoguro and former sushi chef at Masu, about the incident with the worms. "My wife isn't from the United States," he said. "She's from Russia. The only way they trust fish, even frozen, is [if it's] salt-cured.""
- flukus 9y ago
  Because being Japanese doesn't bestow any magical ability to make sushi well.
- vostok 9y ago
  Smoked fish, pickled fish, and dried fish are all popular in Russia.
- ceejayoz 9y ago
  The chef's wife doesn't eat sushi, and there's plenty of excellent sushi made by non-Japanese.
CamperBob2 9y ago
This challenges the conventional foodie wisdom that wild is good and farmed is bad. But the science is clear, and food regulators recognize this. Both the Food and Drug Administration's recommendations and Oregon's food regulations allow an exception for eating raw, never- frozen farmed fish. In other words, it says that all raw fish served in restaurants must be previosly frozen unless aquacultured. So.... what's the problem, exactly? If the fish came from a farm, it's (apparently, according to the article) safe. Mindlessly downvoting is not a valid answer.
raldi 9y ago
Similarly, almost all kale is infested with grubs or their eggs. Even if you triple wash it, it's almost impossible to get them all out of the nooks and crannies on the underside of the leaf. Look closely next time you buy some -- particularly organic. Just like the dead fish parasites, though, it's not harmful.
- Quarrelsome 9y ago
  unless you're pregnant I believe?
- samstave 9y ago
  humorously; google for "kale grub eggs" -- and it returns nothing but recipes!
  - raldi 9y ago
    They look like this. I guess I should have said "aphids": https://www.bbbseed.com/blog%20images/Aphids%20Kale%20Judy%20Sedbrook.jpg https://www.bbbseed.com/blog%20images/Aphids%20Kale%20Judy%2...
averagewall 9y ago
Wow. You're supposed to cook fish at 130F? That's 54C! You could practically achieve that by leaving it on the dashboard of a parked car in summer. Not only won't it kill worms but it won't kill bacteria either. I would call it raw fish at that temperature.
- ionised 9y ago
  Raw fish is eaten in many countries.
- dTal 9y ago
  According to the USDA, not only won't it kill bacteria, it'll incubate them. Anything less that 140F is in the "danger zone" for rapid bacterial growth and food poisoning, and recommend a cooking temp of 145F for fish. I initially suspected some Celsius-Fahrenheit confusion, but other sources corroborate these temperatures. Color me perplexed. For what it's worth, I had fish last night. Cooked it 20 minutes at 180C. Was not shrunken or dry. Guess I'm doing it wrong?
  - seanp2k2 9y ago
    What temperature did the coldest part inside reach and for how long?
  - aznumeric 9y ago
    You're not alone. I bake fish in the oven at 180C for at least 20 minutes.
  - peterwwillis 9y ago
    If your fish was commercially frozen, you don't need to cook it at all, much less to that high a degree. And if you thaw, prepare and serve it properly, potentially harmful bacterial growth is minimal and safe. The FDA even has guidelines to follow in the preparation of sushi which results in a fairly safe dish. In one study it was shown that refrigerated or frozen sushi had less aerobic mesophilic bacteria than freshly prepared sushi, and that the preparation varies between restaurants/chefs. But more people get bacterial infections from produce and rice than from fish. On the culinary side of things, it can be easy to overcook certain fish, and other fish are much more lenient. Some of the most delicious tasting fish should be served raw or in-between raw and fully cooked. This way both delicate flavors and firm tissues don't break down completely. For a typical salmon steak, 145C for 20 minutes is about right. The idea is to get it up to temperature, then remove it and cover it and let the residual heat keep cooking the fish for 10 minutes, allowing juices to settle back in (much like other meats). Alternately you can cook at a higher temperature for shorter time and apply a sear after. But in general, once the meat turns opaque all the way through, it's at the perfect state just a couple minutes later.
xref 9y ago
60 cases a year in the US, out of (quick Google) "In 2009 Americans consumed a total of 4.8 billion pounds of seafood." Sweet Mary! This is like the viral report of the kid who overdosed on caffeine a few weeks ago. And as someone said in the HN comments there: "this isn't a new silent killer."
pvaldes 9y ago
Animals have parasites, welcome to the planet earth.
- louithethrid 9y ago
  Even the parasites have parasites.
TheGrassyKnoll 9y ago
Worms and plastic in sea salt: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/05/sullied-seasoning-seas-salts-come-with-a-dash-of-microplastics/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/05/sullied-seasoning-se... A Kale sandwich (with a few grubs) is looking kinda good.
iLemming 9y ago
So why in US you can't buy anthelmintic drugs over the counter, without prescription. Or can you?
douche 9y ago
No shit. If you've ever gone deep sea fishing on the New England coast, and taken home some cod or pollock or haddock or hake filets, then when you skin them, you've doubtless noticed some litle round reddish worms under the flesh. You just pick them out with your filet knife when you clean the filet up.

56 points by skolos 9y ago

> some wild species of fish—like hake, herring, and mackerel—had an infection rate over 90 percent, but the study found no farmed fish to be infected with nematodes.. Did not expect to see the rate this high.

ufo 9y ago
It sounds about right. The world is full of parasites...
pvaldes 9y ago
Is true that farmed saltwater fish do not have Anisakidae nematodes normally, because they aren't feed with live bait normally and the life cycle of this nematode is not direct and can't be completed. On the other hand, I will take the flashing 90% infection rate with a grain of salt, for some reasons. First because this rate is not useful if we count together fishes with a 500 worms load, and fishes hosting one single tiny 1mm long worm. Second, because infection rate is heavily seasonal. Third, because parasite distribution is patched. If we speak of a single type of roundworm some stocks could be heavily affected, but most of them aren't. Mixing saltwater with freshwater and speaking of all parasites together the percent should be closer to 100%.

hartror 9y ago

> Still, this may be an issue that's more about squeamishness than safety. Of the 20,000 cases of nematode infection from eating fish reported globally, over 90 percent of them are in Japan. Unless you're susceptible to infection this is really about perception rather than health risks.

peterwwillis 9y ago

As with almost all Vice articles, this is heavy on the ick factor, light on useful information. This "journalist"'s only source was someone who literally just sold infected fish. Most parasites in fish can't adapt to humans, most can be safely digested, and commercially frozen fish will only have dead ones. So sushi or cooked dishes made from commercially frozen fish is basically fine. Worst case: a dead animal is in your food, which is already a dead animal. Less than 40 cases of humans infected with fish parasites are found in the USA each year. Wild freshwater and semi-freshwater (like Salmon) are the most likely infected fish. If you find wriggly worms in your take-out, you can actually remove the worms (yes, even if they are alive) and then cook the fish to an internal temperature of 145F for 15 seconds, and everything (larva + remaining worms) will be either dead or safe enough to eat. However, if this is takeout, and the worms are alive, you probably already ate live worms/parasites. It's funny that Vice didn't even include the really gross parts. Some people report feeling a tingling sensation when they eat raw or undercooked fish. This is the worms moving around. Often you can remove the worms from your mouth or esophagus, or vomit, to prevent infection.

bestnameever 9y ago
The ick factor is really turning me off of fish and I love fish. It might be safe but something about worms and parasites gives me the creeps. On top of that, it seems that many times the fish you order might not be the fish you receive. For someone that cares, I'm starting to find it confusing to keep up with what fish I want to avoid, and whether I should seek fresh or farmed, frozen, etc... http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/04/27/testing-shows-many-bay-area-restaurants-mislabeling-fish/ http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/04/27/testing-shows-ma...
- peterwwillis 9y ago
  Refer to the Monterey Bay Aqauarium's Consumer Guides for the most ecologically responsible choices of fish. From those, cross reference with a list of "healthy fish" such as https://www.rodalesorganiclife.com/food/healthy-fish https://www.rodalesorganiclife.com/food/healthy-fish . As for "honest labeling", I just don't pay lots of money for fish. Culinary skill is more likely to make it taste great than exotic variety. I think you really shouldn't consider it so much, though. A lot of work is put into minimizing how "unsightly" our food is and it results in a lot of waste. Fruit and veggies have more parasites than fish, for example, and consumer-facing fish gets a lot of prep work before you ever get to see it.

bykovich2 9y ago

Eh.

rootsudo 9y ago

Not the main part of the article but why would anyone go to a Sushi restaurant if the owner isn't Japanese? Especially if they don't eat the food they serve? "I talked to Ryan Roadhouse, chef-owner of the lauded Japanese restaurant Nodoguro and former sushi chef at Masu, about the incident with the worms. "My wife isn't from the United States," he said. "She's from Russia. The only way they trust fish, even frozen, is [if it's] salt-cured.""

flukus 9y ago
Because being Japanese doesn't bestow any magical ability to make sushi well.
vostok 9y ago
Smoked fish, pickled fish, and dried fish are all popular in Russia.
ceejayoz 9y ago
The chef's wife doesn't eat sushi, and there's plenty of excellent sushi made by non-Japanese.

CamperBob2 9y ago

This challenges the conventional foodie wisdom that wild is good and farmed is bad. But the science is clear, and food regulators recognize this. Both the Food and Drug Administration's recommendations and Oregon's food regulations allow an exception for eating raw, never- frozen farmed fish. In other words, it says that all raw fish served in restaurants must be previosly frozen unless aquacultured. So.... what's the problem, exactly? If the fish came from a farm, it's (apparently, according to the article) safe. Mindlessly downvoting is not a valid answer.

raldi 9y ago

Similarly, almost all kale is infested with grubs or their eggs. Even if you triple wash it, it's almost impossible to get them all out of the nooks and crannies on the underside of the leaf. Look closely next time you buy some -- particularly organic. Just like the dead fish parasites, though, it's not harmful.

Quarrelsome 9y ago
unless you're pregnant I believe?
samstave 9y ago
humorously; google for "kale grub eggs" -- and it returns nothing but recipes!
- raldi 9y ago
  They look like this. I guess I should have said "aphids": https://www.bbbseed.com/blog%20images/Aphids%20Kale%20Judy%20Sedbrook.jpg https://www.bbbseed.com/blog%20images/Aphids%20Kale%20Judy%2...

averagewall 9y ago

Wow. You're supposed to cook fish at 130F? That's 54C! You could practically achieve that by leaving it on the dashboard of a parked car in summer. Not only won't it kill worms but it won't kill bacteria either. I would call it raw fish at that temperature.

ionised 9y ago
Raw fish is eaten in many countries.
dTal 9y ago
According to the USDA, not only won't it kill bacteria, it'll incubate them. Anything less that 140F is in the "danger zone" for rapid bacterial growth and food poisoning, and recommend a cooking temp of 145F for fish. I initially suspected some Celsius-Fahrenheit confusion, but other sources corroborate these temperatures. Color me perplexed. For what it's worth, I had fish last night. Cooked it 20 minutes at 180C. Was not shrunken or dry. Guess I'm doing it wrong?
- seanp2k2 9y ago
  What temperature did the coldest part inside reach and for how long?
- aznumeric 9y ago
  You're not alone. I bake fish in the oven at 180C for at least 20 minutes.
- peterwwillis 9y ago
  If your fish was commercially frozen, you don't need to cook it at all, much less to that high a degree. And if you thaw, prepare and serve it properly, potentially harmful bacterial growth is minimal and safe. The FDA even has guidelines to follow in the preparation of sushi which results in a fairly safe dish. In one study it was shown that refrigerated or frozen sushi had less aerobic mesophilic bacteria than freshly prepared sushi, and that the preparation varies between restaurants/chefs. But more people get bacterial infections from produce and rice than from fish. On the culinary side of things, it can be easy to overcook certain fish, and other fish are much more lenient. Some of the most delicious tasting fish should be served raw or in-between raw and fully cooked. This way both delicate flavors and firm tissues don't break down completely. For a typical salmon steak, 145C for 20 minutes is about right. The idea is to get it up to temperature, then remove it and cover it and let the residual heat keep cooking the fish for 10 minutes, allowing juices to settle back in (much like other meats). Alternately you can cook at a higher temperature for shorter time and apply a sear after. But in general, once the meat turns opaque all the way through, it's at the perfect state just a couple minutes later.

xref 9y ago

60 cases a year in the US, out of (quick Google) "In 2009 Americans consumed a total of 4.8 billion pounds of seafood." Sweet Mary! This is like the viral report of the kid who overdosed on caffeine a few weeks ago. And as someone said in the HN comments there: "this isn't a new silent killer."

pvaldes 9y ago

Animals have parasites, welcome to the planet earth.

louithethrid 9y ago
Even the parasites have parasites.

TheGrassyKnoll 9y ago

Worms and plastic in sea salt: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/05/sullied-seasoning-seas-salts-come-with-a-dash-of-microplastics/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/05/sullied-seasoning-se... A Kale sandwich (with a few grubs) is looking kinda good.

iLemming 9y ago

So why in US you can't buy anthelmintic drugs over the counter, without prescription. Or can you?

douche 9y ago

No shit. If you've ever gone deep sea fishing on the New England coast, and taken home some cod or pollock or haddock or hake filets, then when you skin them, you've doubtless noticed some litle round reddish worms under the flesh. You just pick them out with your filet knife when you clean the filet up.