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> Some people in this thread have provided a number of reasons why Russia could make good use of Sweden in the event of a larger conflict I don't really think

> Some people in this thread have provided a number of reasons why Russia could make good use of Sweden in the event of a larger conflict I don't really think those are good use, Sweden is pretty large and doesn't really hold water passage alone, it's not like Panama canal or Turkey's Bosporus. But anyway, do you think, but really honestly, that large scale NATO - Russia war is possible? With all those nukes etc. It didn't even happen during cold war, so I don't see any possibility of that. (Also Russians are not that blood-thirsty as western media shows them, so there's 0 desire of that as well).

eveningcoffee 9y ago
I am not a military expert but I my opinion annexing Sweden would be strategically reasonable: 1) attacking Sweden does not trigger NATO article 5 (because Sweden in not in NATO), 2) Sweden will give close proximity to Germany and to the rest of central Europe, 3) Finland would become cut out and would very likely just surrender (or surrender sooner), 4) complete control over Baltic Sea makes helping Baltic states considerably harder by other NATO members. In many cases it makes seriously more sense for Russia to first attack Sweden than countries next to its border. I am not saying that Russia will just do it, but it may seriously consider it within a larger conflict. I therefore believe that there are serious reasons for Sweden to have considerable deterrence against it just happening when Russia just pleases it.
- aquadrop 9y ago
  > 2) Sweden will give close proximity to Germany and to the rest of central Europe, Russia already has Kaliningrad which is already very close to Germany and the rest of central Europe, for whatever reason you think it's good. It also all involves some larger conflict with western war, large scale war. But it's a suicide for Russia, this won't happen. Russia isn't a blood-thirsty monster that each day thinks how to conquer the world or die trying to... There's a lot of problems with Russia, but mostly poeple of Russia are the victims...
  - eveningcoffee 9y ago
    >Russia already has Kaliningrad It was called Königsberg. It was once Germany but it is no where near Germany today - there is still this pesky Poland in between. Having control over Sweden also helps to deal with the Polish question... Let me stress it again. At current state attacking Sweden probably (and hopefully) will be suicide for Russia, but only thanks to respectable deterrence by Sweden. Otherwise, if Russia would consider attacking one of its western neighbours, it would make much more sense to attack Sweden first. I hope it makes it clear why it is ridiculous to ridicule Sweden for having a serious army. >mostly poeple of Russia are the victims... ... of their own delusions (i.e. NATO countries are trying to encircle them etc)?
    - rangibaby 9y ago
      In the event of an offensive war, Russia would go through Latvia and Lithuania to link with Kaliningrad. They could safely ignore Sweden. What is the point of opening a front there from a Russian perspective?
      - BoiledCabbage 9y ago
        > Russia would go through Latvia and Lithuania The absolutely crucial difference is that Latvia and Lithuania are both NATO countries, and that would trigger Article 5.
      - kbart 9y ago
        "What is the point of opening a front there from a Russian perspective?" The difference between attacking a country with sub-par military vs attacking the mightiest military alliance on the whole world?
dogma1138 9y ago
This isn't going to be Sweden alone, Russia doesn't have major force projection without ground troops, you can't pour into Norway without taking Sweden first. If a war would break out and Russia would need to secure a passage for it's baltic fleet it would likely involve a ground invasion into Sweden and then Norway and Denmark likely through Finland. Russia might also use it's Northern Fleet for which Severomorsk serves as it's home port, in that case Russia would need to circle the Scandinavian Peninsula, in which case the Northern fleet would be well in range of the Swedish (as well as Finnish, and Norwegian) air forces. Russia's Baltic fleet is located in Kaliningrad a small Russian enclave between Poland and Lithuania, Kaliningrad would not hold out for long without Russia escalating to the nuclear options as such in any major conflict Russia would want to ensure the security and freedom of movement of it's Baltic fleet, this would involve pinning down Sweden to prevent a naval blockade of Kaliningrad, the use of it's air force against Russian targets in the Baltic and the Arctic and as a stepping stone into invading Norway and further. On the other side of the Baltic Russia would undoubtedly invade the small baltic states, either annexing them completely or securing a land corridor from Russia proper to Kaliningrad in order to be able to keep it's naval base there supplied and operational. As silly as it might sound, the world is a giant game of Risk especially when it comes to Russia since they have been always at a geographical disadvantage despite being the largest country in the world and one of the most resource rich countries to boot. In general i think you have the notion that the fact that Sweden is preparing itself for a Russian invasion means that Russia have somehow singled out Sweden. It didn't, it's just another piece on the board that Russia would have to take out or severely confine in order to be able to move it's own pieces to where it counts. Finland, the Baltic states, the rest of Scandinavia and Europe at large are all effectively planning for the inevitable if unlikely Russian invasion in case of a major conflict. Sweden being close to Russia, having whilst a small but sufficiently sophisticated and relatively large for the area navy (5 decent stealth corvettes and 5 submarines all of which are more than capable of effecting a blockade against a merchant fleet escort or not), having a relatively large air forces for the region (about 100 Saab JAS 39 Gripen fighters, all equippable with anti-ship missiles) and being just across the baltic at a very short distance from the Russian baltic fleet home port and headquarters makes Sweden a strategic target for Russia as it poses a direct threat to it's interests. If you still can't see that then I'm sorry but I don't know how to explain it in a more simple or detailed manner. If anything else fails then go to https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kaliningrad,+Kaliningrad+Oblast,+Russia/ https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kaliningrad,+Kaliningrad+O... and zoom out a bit.

eveningcoffee 9y ago

I am not a military expert but I my opinion annexing Sweden would be strategically reasonable: 1) attacking Sweden does not trigger NATO article 5 (because Sweden in not in NATO), 2) Sweden will give close proximity to Germany and to the rest of central Europe, 3) Finland would become cut out and would very likely just surrender (or surrender sooner), 4) complete control over Baltic Sea makes helping Baltic states considerably harder by other NATO members. In many cases it makes seriously more sense for Russia to first attack Sweden than countries next to its border. I am not saying that Russia will just do it, but it may seriously consider it within a larger conflict. I therefore believe that there are serious reasons for Sweden to have considerable deterrence against it just happening when Russia just pleases it.

aquadrop 9y ago
> 2) Sweden will give close proximity to Germany and to the rest of central Europe, Russia already has Kaliningrad which is already very close to Germany and the rest of central Europe, for whatever reason you think it's good. It also all involves some larger conflict with western war, large scale war. But it's a suicide for Russia, this won't happen. Russia isn't a blood-thirsty monster that each day thinks how to conquer the world or die trying to... There's a lot of problems with Russia, but mostly poeple of Russia are the victims...
- eveningcoffee 9y ago
  >Russia already has Kaliningrad It was called Königsberg. It was once Germany but it is no where near Germany today - there is still this pesky Poland in between. Having control over Sweden also helps to deal with the Polish question... Let me stress it again. At current state attacking Sweden probably (and hopefully) will be suicide for Russia, but only thanks to respectable deterrence by Sweden. Otherwise, if Russia would consider attacking one of its western neighbours, it would make much more sense to attack Sweden first. I hope it makes it clear why it is ridiculous to ridicule Sweden for having a serious army. >mostly poeple of Russia are the victims... ... of their own delusions (i.e. NATO countries are trying to encircle them etc)?
  - rangibaby 9y ago
    In the event of an offensive war, Russia would go through Latvia and Lithuania to link with Kaliningrad. They could safely ignore Sweden. What is the point of opening a front there from a Russian perspective?
    - BoiledCabbage 9y ago
      > Russia would go through Latvia and Lithuania The absolutely crucial difference is that Latvia and Lithuania are both NATO countries, and that would trigger Article 5.
    - kbart 9y ago
      "What is the point of opening a front there from a Russian perspective?" The difference between attacking a country with sub-par military vs attacking the mightiest military alliance on the whole world?

dogma1138 9y ago

This isn't going to be Sweden alone, Russia doesn't have major force projection without ground troops, you can't pour into Norway without taking Sweden first. If a war would break out and Russia would need to secure a passage for it's baltic fleet it would likely involve a ground invasion into Sweden and then Norway and Denmark likely through Finland. Russia might also use it's Northern Fleet for which Severomorsk serves as it's home port, in that case Russia would need to circle the Scandinavian Peninsula, in which case the Northern fleet would be well in range of the Swedish (as well as Finnish, and Norwegian) air forces. Russia's Baltic fleet is located in Kaliningrad a small Russian enclave between Poland and Lithuania, Kaliningrad would not hold out for long without Russia escalating to the nuclear options as such in any major conflict Russia would want to ensure the security and freedom of movement of it's Baltic fleet, this would involve pinning down Sweden to prevent a naval blockade of Kaliningrad, the use of it's air force against Russian targets in the Baltic and the Arctic and as a stepping stone into invading Norway and further. On the other side of the Baltic Russia would undoubtedly invade the small baltic states, either annexing them completely or securing a land corridor from Russia proper to Kaliningrad in order to be able to keep it's naval base there supplied and operational. As silly as it might sound, the world is a giant game of Risk especially when it comes to Russia since they have been always at a geographical disadvantage despite being the largest country in the world and one of the most resource rich countries to boot. In general i think you have the notion that the fact that Sweden is preparing itself for a Russian invasion means that Russia have somehow singled out Sweden. It didn't, it's just another piece on the board that Russia would have to take out or severely confine in order to be able to move it's own pieces to where it counts. Finland, the Baltic states, the rest of Scandinavia and Europe at large are all effectively planning for the inevitable if unlikely Russian invasion in case of a major conflict. Sweden being close to Russia, having whilst a small but sufficiently sophisticated and relatively large for the area navy (5 decent stealth corvettes and 5 submarines all of which are more than capable of effecting a blockade against a merchant fleet escort or not), having a relatively large air forces for the region (about 100 Saab JAS 39 Gripen fighters, all equippable with anti-ship missiles) and being just across the baltic at a very short distance from the Russian baltic fleet home port and headquarters makes Sweden a strategic target for Russia as it poses a direct threat to it's interests. If you still can't see that then I'm sorry but I don't know how to explain it in a more simple or detailed manner. If anything else fails then go to https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kaliningrad,+Kaliningrad+Oblast,+Russia/ https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kaliningrad,+Kaliningrad+O... and zoom out a bit.