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Thanks for the explanation on your process for creating the clusters and the analysis. It cleared up a few questions I had. What's interesting is the large clu

Thanks for the explanation on your process for creating the clusters and the analysis. It cleared up a few questions I had. What's interesting is the large clusters where either a for or while loop were used. I'm curious whether if given a (limited) choice any hiring manager would have a preference between the two implementations? TLDR: How much does/would coding style influence the hiring process?

RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
That's something I'll be going into in the next stage - feature identification. Some routines used for, some used while, some used do, and some used switch. Yes, switch. Addmittedly not as the looping structure, but for the internal decision process of the loop. Some of these choices are indicative that the programmer isn't a native idiomatic C programmer, but some might be genuine choices for one reason or another. That's when style choice exposes internal concepts. More later. (On current work load - much later. It's taking about 2 weeks per article here, so it won't be quick. Sorry.)
- scorchin 16y ago
  That's fair enough. Are you still coming to the London meetup on Thursday?
  - RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
    I was going to ask if it's still on. Yes, I'm intending to. I need to remember/find out where and when. I'm so busy at the moment that important things are starting to slide and get lost.
  - eru 16y ago
    Is it open for other hackers, too?
    - dkersten 16y ago
      And where are these things advertised? I'd love to attend, but need a little bit more notice since I'd have to arrange a flight from Dublin and somewhere to stay for a night or two.
      - scorchin 16y ago
        They're advertised as local posts here on HN. Here's the link: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1434964 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1434964 Sorry for the delay, hope I've given you enough time to sort out travel arrangements.
        dkersten 16y ago
        Well, I wouldn't have made it anyway, but I'll keep my eyes open for the next one. Maybe I'll be able to go then :)
    - scorchin 16y ago
      Yes, I believe it's open to anyone. See the previous post: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1434964 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1434964
      - eru 16y ago
        Thanks!
jacquesm 16y ago
That's pretty logical, given that the problem is inherently a 'loop' problem and that there are 'templates' in use for solving this sort of problem either way. I don't think 'style' should be the deciding factor in something like this unless the difference in style translates in to 'readable' versus 'unreadable', old-school coders would do it in one style, people that came to C later will probably do it slightly different. The main criteria are: - does it work ? - is it reasonably efficient ? (as in within a factor of two or so from the optimum solution) - is it reasonably readable ? If all of those are good then you could consider the programmer to have passed this test. Such a test by itself is not enough to disqualify someone for hiring or not hiring based on the style alone, assuming the above three conditions are met. It's just one little element in the total, one of the many 'and' gates you have to get through as a candidate when applying for a position.
- jbert 16y ago
  > I don't think 'style' should be the deciding factor in something like this unless the difference in style translates in to 'readable' versus 'unreadable' Not a deciding factor, but there's a lot of subtle info in a whole code sample. When asking someone for some OO code, I sometimes see OK-but-a-bit-naive code, which includes variable names like "theObject". That suggests to me that the most important characteristic of this entity in the coder's head is that it is an object - i.e. that they're not very familiar with OO code. Basically, information like the choice of variables names provides a window on the mental model the coder has of the problem. And that's useful.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    If I read the first question correctly it asks if choosing a 'for' over a 'while' would be a reason to pick one programmer over another and I don't think that should be the case, it's a stylistic thing but one that is probably not very important. I agree with you on the naming issue, but the funny thing is that that sort of information is exactly what was removed in order to make the analysis possible.
  - VBprogrammer 16y ago

RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago

That's something I'll be going into in the next stage - feature identification. Some routines used for, some used while, some used do, and some used switch. Yes, switch. Addmittedly not as the looping structure, but for the internal decision process of the loop. Some of these choices are indicative that the programmer isn't a native idiomatic C programmer, but some might be genuine choices for one reason or another. That's when style choice exposes internal concepts. More later. (On current work load - much later. It's taking about 2 weeks per article here, so it won't be quick. Sorry.)

scorchin 16y ago
That's fair enough. Are you still coming to the London meetup on Thursday?
- RiderOfGiraffes 16y ago
  I was going to ask if it's still on. Yes, I'm intending to. I need to remember/find out where and when. I'm so busy at the moment that important things are starting to slide and get lost.
- eru 16y ago
  Is it open for other hackers, too?
  - dkersten 16y ago
    And where are these things advertised? I'd love to attend, but need a little bit more notice since I'd have to arrange a flight from Dublin and somewhere to stay for a night or two.
    - scorchin 16y ago
      They're advertised as local posts here on HN. Here's the link: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1434964 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1434964 Sorry for the delay, hope I've given you enough time to sort out travel arrangements.
      - dkersten 16y ago
        Well, I wouldn't have made it anyway, but I'll keep my eyes open for the next one. Maybe I'll be able to go then :)
  - scorchin 16y ago
    Yes, I believe it's open to anyone. See the previous post: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1434964 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1434964
    - eru 16y ago
      Thanks!

jacquesm 16y ago

That's pretty logical, given that the problem is inherently a 'loop' problem and that there are 'templates' in use for solving this sort of problem either way. I don't think 'style' should be the deciding factor in something like this unless the difference in style translates in to 'readable' versus 'unreadable', old-school coders would do it in one style, people that came to C later will probably do it slightly different. The main criteria are: - does it work ? - is it reasonably efficient ? (as in within a factor of two or so from the optimum solution) - is it reasonably readable ? If all of those are good then you could consider the programmer to have passed this test. Such a test by itself is not enough to disqualify someone for hiring or not hiring based on the style alone, assuming the above three conditions are met. It's just one little element in the total, one of the many 'and' gates you have to get through as a candidate when applying for a position.

jbert 16y ago
> I don't think 'style' should be the deciding factor in something like this unless the difference in style translates in to 'readable' versus 'unreadable' Not a deciding factor, but there's a lot of subtle info in a whole code sample. When asking someone for some OO code, I sometimes see OK-but-a-bit-naive code, which includes variable names like "theObject". That suggests to me that the most important characteristic of this entity in the coder's head is that it is an object - i.e. that they're not very familiar with OO code. Basically, information like the choice of variables names provides a window on the mental model the coder has of the problem. And that's useful.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  If I read the first question correctly it asks if choosing a 'for' over a 'while' would be a reason to pick one programmer over another and I don't think that should be the case, it's a stylistic thing but one that is probably not very important. I agree with you on the naming issue, but the funny thing is that that sort of information is exactly what was removed in order to make the analysis possible.
- VBprogrammer 16y ago