3 ms·

It helps to give non-computer people a non-computer analogy: This is equivalent to requiring the walls of the houses we live in and the clothing we wear to be

It helps to give non-computer people a non-computer analogy: This is equivalent to requiring the walls of the houses we live in and the clothing we wear to be made out of special material which is opaque to us but see-through to the police. This will keep us all safe! Anybody got a problem with that?

hughw 9y ago
Evidently, most people don't have a problem with it, because that describes the situation at U.S. airports very well.
alerighi 9y ago
When I hear people say that backdoors are a good thing, I say to them: so you wouldn't mind either if an agent breaks into your home without permission, reads and copies all your mail and documents, installs microphones and cameras in every room, puts a GPS localizer in all your clothes so you are constantly tracked. Surely you don't want that, well, and if they make the same things through a backdoor in your phone, is it ok ?
- taobility 9y ago
  I am all right with that, as I don't think my privacy is sensitive to the agent, my email just normal email, no terrorism, no child porn, no drug etc, why I would care they check it or not. Apple, Google, Microsoft already scan all your online activities, why would they better than the government? You guys always trying to mix the privacy and security. for the iPhone case, in case the police need to unlock the iPhone to save hundreds of people's life, are you guys still insist that Apple shouldn't unlock the iPhone for the cops?
  - sebmeister 9y ago
    Even if you do not care about the complete loss of privacy, are you not wary about the methods for accessing the backdoors leaking to criminals and antagonist governments? Which has already happened, see Vault 7 and numerous other leaks.
    - petre 9y ago
      S/He will start caring when s/he will be arrested because of a May joke or a neighbour denouncing him/her of being a terrorist. That is how it worked in communist countries. Neighbour issues? Just write a denouncement and file it. The Stasi will do the rest.
      - taobility 9y ago
        in which communist country? are you still living in cold war time?
        petre 9y ago
        In just about every communist country. No, but I lived in a commie country in the 80s and that's how things worked: microphones in your home, the secret police forever taping your phone line, informant neighbours, state propaganda, different radio bands so you won't listen to foreign media etc.
        Operyl 9y ago
        He was making a joke about you using will vs would for your Stasi comment I think.
  - nickbauman 9y ago
    No amount of loss of privacy will stop terrorism. They're not substitutable.
- Cakez0r 9y ago
  In my experience, a lot of people will answer that they don't mind at all if it's for a greater good. I find people are more persuaded by this argument if you also explain that the greater good might change to be something they're uncomfortable with in the future. What if we have a few more terrorist attacks over the next few years and the government decides to outlaw Islam? Are you cool with the government coming in to your home and screening your communications to make sure you're not hiding muslims? Are you cool with the government screening your communications to make sure you're not trying to organize dissent? Just because you have nothing to hide right now, that's not to say that you won't in the future.
bo1024 9y ago
> opaque to us but see-through to the police Or to anyone who happens to get their hands on the police technology. And oh, once leaked, the technology is incredibly cheap and easy to duplicate and distribute among criminals. This exact thing happened with NSA hacking tools a few weeks ago!

hughw 9y ago

Evidently, most people don't have a problem with it, because that describes the situation at U.S. airports very well.

alerighi 9y ago

When I hear people say that backdoors are a good thing, I say to them: so you wouldn't mind either if an agent breaks into your home without permission, reads and copies all your mail and documents, installs microphones and cameras in every room, puts a GPS localizer in all your clothes so you are constantly tracked. Surely you don't want that, well, and if they make the same things through a backdoor in your phone, is it ok ?

taobility 9y ago
I am all right with that, as I don't think my privacy is sensitive to the agent, my email just normal email, no terrorism, no child porn, no drug etc, why I would care they check it or not. Apple, Google, Microsoft already scan all your online activities, why would they better than the government? You guys always trying to mix the privacy and security. for the iPhone case, in case the police need to unlock the iPhone to save hundreds of people's life, are you guys still insist that Apple shouldn't unlock the iPhone for the cops?
- sebmeister 9y ago
  Even if you do not care about the complete loss of privacy, are you not wary about the methods for accessing the backdoors leaking to criminals and antagonist governments? Which has already happened, see Vault 7 and numerous other leaks.
  - petre 9y ago
    S/He will start caring when s/he will be arrested because of a May joke or a neighbour denouncing him/her of being a terrorist. That is how it worked in communist countries. Neighbour issues? Just write a denouncement and file it. The Stasi will do the rest.
    - taobility 9y ago
      in which communist country? are you still living in cold war time?
      - petre 9y ago
        In just about every communist country. No, but I lived in a commie country in the 80s and that's how things worked: microphones in your home, the secret police forever taping your phone line, informant neighbours, state propaganda, different radio bands so you won't listen to foreign media etc.
        Operyl 9y ago
        He was making a joke about you using will vs would for your Stasi comment I think.
- nickbauman 9y ago
  No amount of loss of privacy will stop terrorism. They're not substitutable.
Cakez0r 9y ago
In my experience, a lot of people will answer that they don't mind at all if it's for a greater good. I find people are more persuaded by this argument if you also explain that the greater good might change to be something they're uncomfortable with in the future. What if we have a few more terrorist attacks over the next few years and the government decides to outlaw Islam? Are you cool with the government coming in to your home and screening your communications to make sure you're not hiding muslims? Are you cool with the government screening your communications to make sure you're not trying to organize dissent? Just because you have nothing to hide right now, that's not to say that you won't in the future.

bo1024 9y ago

> opaque to us but see-through to the police Or to anyone who happens to get their hands on the police technology. And oh, once leaked, the technology is incredibly cheap and easy to duplicate and distribute among criminals. This exact thing happened with NSA hacking tools a few weeks ago!