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Maybe if people stopped flipping out a out having to think about injustice and their relative complicity in institutional inequality... Like, freaking out abou

Maybe if people stopped flipping out a out having to think about injustice and their relative complicity in institutional inequality... Like, freaking out about having to think about it. About not being able to sail through life without ever having to.

muninn_ 9y ago
Ridiculous. I think about it all the time. I mentor early-career black and female employees right now, and sponsor on-campus events for groups like NSBE. So don't sit here and assume that because I have a problem with our discussion about equality now means that I don't think about equality, don't support it, or somehow I "sail through life". Did you grow up in a poor family of high school dropouts? Did you go fight in a stupid war so you could do something with your life besides drugs? Did you nearly fail out of college multiple times because you didn't learn how to study when you were younger? Did you struggle from depression for your whole life? This is the exact kind of bs response that I was expecting from somebody who doesn't really understand what's going on besides whatever the latest outrage article they just read said they should be outraged about.
- selllikesybok 9y ago
  To clarify, it's not about you. Poor word choice? My bad. The sailing through life bit was specific to the context of being untroubled by the need to examine ones relative privelege or lack of, and the structures affecting same. Not to imply that not having to think a out these things means life is automatically easy. You can still get cancer, get hit by a bus, etc. ---- You say that if people were not so quick to call out perceived racism or sexism things would be better. I say if people were not so quick to be personally insulted when perceived racism and sexism are called out, things would be better. Did I misunderstand your point?
julianmarq 9y ago
> relative complicity No, this stuff doesn't belong in HN, I don't accept it; this isn't tumblr. Nobody is complicit of anything just for existing. At risk of invoking Godwin's law, that's exactly what the nazis said about every jew, including children. > About not being able to sail through life without ever having to. Yeah, let's not pretend you aren't a person who's had so much privilege that the biggest thing you think to fight about online is the diversity quota about some conference in an emerging (bad, but that's IMO) technology.
- ubernostrum 9y ago
  The instant someone steps in to make comments defending the status quo -- when the status quo is obviously deeply flawed -- they become complicit irrevocably and beyond any hope of later denial. Like you just did with your comment.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    Don't confuse defending the status quo with resisting the misguided attempts at breaking it by encouraging something even more deeply flawed.
  - julianmarq 9y ago
    > The instant someone steps in to make comments defending the status quo -- when the status quo is obviously deeply flawed -- they become complicit irrevocably and beyond any hope of later denial. Counterpoint: no, it doesn't. Because, being against racism against white people or sexism against men is not the same as being in favor of racism against non-white people or sexism against women. You're doing a false dichotomy. > Like you just did with your comment. Good thing I'm not in the USA and I'm not white, then. Now you'll tell me I have "internalized racism." I'm also gay, facing actual discrimination because I can't even get legally married in my country. And none of that makes retaliating to racism and sexism with racism and sexism ok. Nor it does retaliating homophobia with heterophobia, of course.
- selllikesybok 9y ago
  Straight to Nazis, huh? I'm not talking blood and soil here. I'm talking about benefiting from structural inequalities that favor certain groups over others. And to the degree one benefits, and takes that for granted, and perceives the calling out of those benefits as a form of persecution, then yes, there's a degree of complicity. But no one's saying (well, not anyone on HN, anyway, and not most people on Tumblr) that white people or me should be persecuted. Just that they shouldn't be accorded undue advantages to the direct detriment of others. How you get to Nazis from that, I don't know.
  - 9y ago

muninn_ 9y ago

Ridiculous. I think about it all the time. I mentor early-career black and female employees right now, and sponsor on-campus events for groups like NSBE. So don't sit here and assume that because I have a problem with our discussion about equality now means that I don't think about equality, don't support it, or somehow I "sail through life". Did you grow up in a poor family of high school dropouts? Did you go fight in a stupid war so you could do something with your life besides drugs? Did you nearly fail out of college multiple times because you didn't learn how to study when you were younger? Did you struggle from depression for your whole life? This is the exact kind of bs response that I was expecting from somebody who doesn't really understand what's going on besides whatever the latest outrage article they just read said they should be outraged about.

selllikesybok 9y ago
To clarify, it's not about you. Poor word choice? My bad. The sailing through life bit was specific to the context of being untroubled by the need to examine ones relative privelege or lack of, and the structures affecting same. Not to imply that not having to think a out these things means life is automatically easy. You can still get cancer, get hit by a bus, etc. ---- You say that if people were not so quick to call out perceived racism or sexism things would be better. I say if people were not so quick to be personally insulted when perceived racism and sexism are called out, things would be better. Did I misunderstand your point?

julianmarq 9y ago

> relative complicity No, this stuff doesn't belong in HN, I don't accept it; this isn't tumblr. Nobody is complicit of anything just for existing. At risk of invoking Godwin's law, that's exactly what the nazis said about every jew, including children. > About not being able to sail through life without ever having to. Yeah, let's not pretend you aren't a person who's had so much privilege that the biggest thing you think to fight about online is the diversity quota about some conference in an emerging (bad, but that's IMO) technology.

ubernostrum 9y ago
The instant someone steps in to make comments defending the status quo -- when the status quo is obviously deeply flawed -- they become complicit irrevocably and beyond any hope of later denial. Like you just did with your comment.
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  Don't confuse defending the status quo with resisting the misguided attempts at breaking it by encouraging something even more deeply flawed.
- julianmarq 9y ago
  > The instant someone steps in to make comments defending the status quo -- when the status quo is obviously deeply flawed -- they become complicit irrevocably and beyond any hope of later denial. Counterpoint: no, it doesn't. Because, being against racism against white people or sexism against men is not the same as being in favor of racism against non-white people or sexism against women. You're doing a false dichotomy. > Like you just did with your comment. Good thing I'm not in the USA and I'm not white, then. Now you'll tell me I have "internalized racism." I'm also gay, facing actual discrimination because I can't even get legally married in my country. And none of that makes retaliating to racism and sexism with racism and sexism ok. Nor it does retaliating homophobia with heterophobia, of course.
selllikesybok 9y ago
Straight to Nazis, huh? I'm not talking blood and soil here. I'm talking about benefiting from structural inequalities that favor certain groups over others. And to the degree one benefits, and takes that for granted, and perceives the calling out of those benefits as a form of persecution, then yes, there's a degree of complicity. But no one's saying (well, not anyone on HN, anyway, and not most people on Tumblr) that white people or me should be persecuted. Just that they shouldn't be accorded undue advantages to the direct detriment of others. How you get to Nazis from that, I don't know.
- 9y ago