5 ms·

I'm trying to better understand the proposal: 1) What exactly would be reported? 2) To whom? 3) How would it be reported?

by siegel 9y ago

ilovetux 9y ago
Basically any time one person's data is collected or used in any way, that person would have the right to be notified of the actual data in question, how that data is being used and by whom. This could be an email containing a csv file with the actual data points and a brief summary of what is happening with the data. This is the ideal and I haven't fleshed out the idea too much which is why I am soliciting opinions and ideas.
- siegel 9y ago
  I would think that this would first require the adoption of something much closer to the EU data privacy regime: actual rights to know what data is collected, how it would be used prospectively, rights to collect and be forgotten, etc...I think this would be a precondition to the setup you are proposing. It would also seem clear to me that, from a regulatory standpoint, there would need to be a regulatory body in charge of developing regs around this and enforcing it. So, in other words, this would be expensive to implement (both in terms of adding government regulatory costs + costs of private enterprises complying). That being said, what I find particularly attractive about your proposal is that it might shock people into understanding what they are really doing by pressing "I agree." In other words, it could cause a huge cultural shift that I think is really necessary. There are a lot of things written about how people (particularly younger people) do not really value privacy anymore. I would bet a large sum of money that if your proposal were implemented, many of these people who "don't care about privacy" would start caring because the implications of their giving up their personal data would suddenly become clear. I can't see this being all that difficult to implement technologically, would it be?
  - ilovetux 9y ago
    Technically I do not believe so, in python (with which I am most familiar) it is trivial to add a handler to a logger. That handler can do anything including sending emails or http requests. A similar technique should be possible within similar technologies such as log4j (a common framework written in java). What I like about my idea is that nothing need to be changed by the business except implementation of the new requirement. In other words the "I agree" you clicked still applies but now they have to tell you what actually happened with the actual data which could be used to inform future decisions. What I find troubling about your prerequisites is the word "prospectively". Reporting of actual facts should be the goal and this is only possible in the past and present tense. By the way, thank you for your response, I need to research current European laws more thoroughly before I can give a proper response.
    - siegel 9y ago
      I wonder if this could be marketed as a 3rd-party service? Plenty of companies pay for privacy certifications that are not legally required - presumably because there is some amount of customer demand. I could imagine incredible demand for a service like you propose, if people knew that they could get this kind of information.
      - ilovetux 9y ago
        That is a great idea! Personally the only organization I would trust at this point would be the Free Software Foundation. They are a nonprofit organization with a long history of supporting user rights. In fact, if everyone were to use the GPL and/or Affero licenses for their software, the source code would be auditable. That would alleviate half of my concerns as I could tell what information would be available to them. All that would be left is my concern about what is done with my personal information after collection. If an organization which I trust were to issue certification which conveys assurances as to what does or doesn't happen to my data, I might be ok with that even without access to specific details. I don't think the big guys would sign up for this without incentive. That's the main reason I think a law would be the best way. In order to make this happen, a boycott could be organized. Participation would need to be easy so we could facilitate it with a custom build of Firefox (or similar) which will only allow you to visit sites certified to respect users privacy.

I'm trying to better understand the proposal: 1) What exactly would be reported? 2) To whom? 3) How would it be reported?

by siegel 9y ago

I'm trying to better understand the proposal: 1) What exactly would be reported? 2) To whom? 3) How would it be reported?

ilovetux 9y ago

Basically any time one person's data is collected or used in any way, that person would have the right to be notified of the actual data in question, how that data is being used and by whom. This could be an email containing a csv file with the actual data points and a brief summary of what is happening with the data. This is the ideal and I haven't fleshed out the idea too much which is why I am soliciting opinions and ideas.

siegel 9y ago
I would think that this would first require the adoption of something much closer to the EU data privacy regime: actual rights to know what data is collected, how it would be used prospectively, rights to collect and be forgotten, etc...I think this would be a precondition to the setup you are proposing. It would also seem clear to me that, from a regulatory standpoint, there would need to be a regulatory body in charge of developing regs around this and enforcing it. So, in other words, this would be expensive to implement (both in terms of adding government regulatory costs + costs of private enterprises complying). That being said, what I find particularly attractive about your proposal is that it might shock people into understanding what they are really doing by pressing "I agree." In other words, it could cause a huge cultural shift that I think is really necessary. There are a lot of things written about how people (particularly younger people) do not really value privacy anymore. I would bet a large sum of money that if your proposal were implemented, many of these people who "don't care about privacy" would start caring because the implications of their giving up their personal data would suddenly become clear. I can't see this being all that difficult to implement technologically, would it be?
- ilovetux 9y ago
  Technically I do not believe so, in python (with which I am most familiar) it is trivial to add a handler to a logger. That handler can do anything including sending emails or http requests. A similar technique should be possible within similar technologies such as log4j (a common framework written in java). What I like about my idea is that nothing need to be changed by the business except implementation of the new requirement. In other words the "I agree" you clicked still applies but now they have to tell you what actually happened with the actual data which could be used to inform future decisions. What I find troubling about your prerequisites is the word "prospectively". Reporting of actual facts should be the goal and this is only possible in the past and present tense. By the way, thank you for your response, I need to research current European laws more thoroughly before I can give a proper response.
  - siegel 9y ago
    I wonder if this could be marketed as a 3rd-party service? Plenty of companies pay for privacy certifications that are not legally required - presumably because there is some amount of customer demand. I could imagine incredible demand for a service like you propose, if people knew that they could get this kind of information.
    - ilovetux 9y ago
      That is a great idea! Personally the only organization I would trust at this point would be the Free Software Foundation. They are a nonprofit organization with a long history of supporting user rights. In fact, if everyone were to use the GPL and/or Affero licenses for their software, the source code would be auditable. That would alleviate half of my concerns as I could tell what information would be available to them. All that would be left is my concern about what is done with my personal information after collection. If an organization which I trust were to issue certification which conveys assurances as to what does or doesn't happen to my data, I might be ok with that even without access to specific details. I don't think the big guys would sign up for this without incentive. That's the main reason I think a law would be the best way. In order to make this happen, a boycott could be organized. Participation would need to be easy so we could facilitate it with a custom build of Firefox (or similar) which will only allow you to visit sites certified to respect users privacy.