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Agreed. The problem is that Bitcoin wants to be taken seriously as a currency while at the same time not being subject to all the rules and regulations imposed

Agreed. The problem is that Bitcoin wants to be taken seriously as a currency while at the same time not being subject to all the rules and regulations imposed on currencies. This was predicted years ago by most critics but was most often just hand-waved away by advocates, most responding that it was impossible to regulate the system itself. Well.. yeah, so you regulate assets and income of the people and companies involved. That's how it works with regular currency too. It's a problem any currency system has (even barter!)

mirimir 9y ago
Some of us see P2P cryptocurrencies as a way to opt out of government regulation. Governments can't regulate entities that maintain strong anonymity. Most vulnerable are asset movements to and from meatspace. But there are well-known methods for dealing with that.
- abritinthebay 9y ago
  It's... like you're repeating exactly the objection I mentioned and not addressing the core problem with it. Oh no, that is what you just did. Ok then, carry on.
  - mirimir 9y ago
    Yes, I'm arguing that these rules and regulations are the core problem.
    - ThomPete 9y ago
      you cant have your cake and eat it. you cant just opt out of regulation and not all the other things. you would litterally have to start your own nation from scratch.
      - timbowhite 9y ago
        Do you think people like Rosa Parks should have started their own nation? [0] What an incredibly frightening way of thinking. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks
        ThomPete 9y ago
        Rosa Park fought to get equal rights. You want to have privileges. The fact that you don't see that is the only frightening thinking here.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
        mirimir 9y ago
        What we want is the right to be left alone. It's a form of nonviolent resistance.
        ThomPete 9y ago
        Wanting to be left alone is exactly a privilege.
        roguecoder 9y ago
        Why do so many libertarian dudes suddenly all want to be Rosa Parks? And how did they miss the part where she was arrested and convicted, as part of a coordinated activist effort to change specific laws? She didn't just break the law and expect there to be no consequences. That's not how non-violence resistance works.
      - mirimir 9y ago
        True. But it's not in meatspace. It's primarily online. And it's not really a nation. Voluntary associations only. What you don't get is the ability to fight wars in meatspace. But long term, that's not such a bad thing. You'd need to focus on asymmetric cyber warfare. Maybe drone armies, if it came to that.
- legulere 9y ago
  And governments have all reason to believe that when people try hiding money streams from them it is for something illegal like tax evasion, money laundering, etc. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't like to live in a world with even more powerful criminal forces.
  - mirimir 9y ago
    As I see it, the most powerful criminals control governments. And then they get to define whatever they don't like as criminal. The game is rigged. But fighting is pointless. It's better to just walk away.
    - legulere 9y ago
      The problem with no- or low-state solutions is that you remove accountability to the people that you even have in places like China.
      - mirimir 9y ago
        I don't see a lot of "accountability to the people" anywhere. Just bullshit, propaganda and exploitation. The truly wealthy own everything, and the rest of us are pawns at best. It's been that way for thousands of years. I see the Internet as the best shot for transforming that. Because it can empower individuals, permit free and private association, create space for people to be free of coercion, and so on. Time will tell.
- DanBC 9y ago
  > entities that maintain strong anonymity An impossible task for the vast majority of people. Especially since bitcoin is not anonymous.
  - mirimir 9y ago
    > An impossible task for the vast majority of people I freelance ;) > ...bitcoin is not anonymous Bitmixer.io / bitmixer2whesjgj.onion foggeddriztrcar2.onion / foggedddxlunnaaa.onion [Bitcoin Fog] grams7enufi7jmdl.onion/helix/light See https://www.ivpn.net/privacy-guides/advanced-privacy-and-anonymity-part-7 https://www.ivpn.net/privacy-guides/advanced-privacy-and-ano... (somewhat outdated, but hey).

mirimir 9y ago

Some of us see P2P cryptocurrencies as a way to opt out of government regulation. Governments can't regulate entities that maintain strong anonymity. Most vulnerable are asset movements to and from meatspace. But there are well-known methods for dealing with that.

abritinthebay 9y ago
It's... like you're repeating exactly the objection I mentioned and not addressing the core problem with it. Oh no, that is what you just did. Ok then, carry on.
- mirimir 9y ago
  Yes, I'm arguing that these rules and regulations are the core problem.
  - ThomPete 9y ago
    you cant have your cake and eat it. you cant just opt out of regulation and not all the other things. you would litterally have to start your own nation from scratch.
    - timbowhite 9y ago
      Do you think people like Rosa Parks should have started their own nation? [0] What an incredibly frightening way of thinking. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Parks
      - ThomPete 9y ago
        Rosa Park fought to get equal rights. You want to have privileges. The fact that you don't see that is the only frightening thinking here.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
        mirimir 9y ago
        What we want is the right to be left alone. It's a form of nonviolent resistance.
        ThomPete 9y ago
        Wanting to be left alone is exactly a privilege.
      - roguecoder 9y ago
        Why do so many libertarian dudes suddenly all want to be Rosa Parks? And how did they miss the part where she was arrested and convicted, as part of a coordinated activist effort to change specific laws? She didn't just break the law and expect there to be no consequences. That's not how non-violence resistance works.
    - mirimir 9y ago
      True. But it's not in meatspace. It's primarily online. And it's not really a nation. Voluntary associations only. What you don't get is the ability to fight wars in meatspace. But long term, that's not such a bad thing. You'd need to focus on asymmetric cyber warfare. Maybe drone armies, if it came to that.
legulere 9y ago
And governments have all reason to believe that when people try hiding money streams from them it is for something illegal like tax evasion, money laundering, etc. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't like to live in a world with even more powerful criminal forces.
- mirimir 9y ago
  As I see it, the most powerful criminals control governments. And then they get to define whatever they don't like as criminal. The game is rigged. But fighting is pointless. It's better to just walk away.
  - legulere 9y ago
    The problem with no- or low-state solutions is that you remove accountability to the people that you even have in places like China.
    - mirimir 9y ago
      I don't see a lot of "accountability to the people" anywhere. Just bullshit, propaganda and exploitation. The truly wealthy own everything, and the rest of us are pawns at best. It's been that way for thousands of years. I see the Internet as the best shot for transforming that. Because it can empower individuals, permit free and private association, create space for people to be free of coercion, and so on. Time will tell.
DanBC 9y ago
> entities that maintain strong anonymity An impossible task for the vast majority of people. Especially since bitcoin is not anonymous.
- mirimir 9y ago
  > An impossible task for the vast majority of people I freelance ;) > ...bitcoin is not anonymous Bitmixer.io / bitmixer2whesjgj.onion foggeddriztrcar2.onion / foggedddxlunnaaa.onion [Bitcoin Fog] grams7enufi7jmdl.onion/helix/light See https://www.ivpn.net/privacy-guides/advanced-privacy-and-anonymity-part-7 https://www.ivpn.net/privacy-guides/advanced-privacy-and-ano... (somewhat outdated, but hey).