5 ms·

Peer-to-peer electronic cash has numerous uses beyond tax evasion and money laundering, just as physical cash does. But to your point, even these laws are part

Peer-to-peer electronic cash has numerous uses beyond tax evasion and money laundering, just as physical cash does. But to your point, even these laws are part of a new trend. Money laundering is a relatively new crime, and widespread taxation of private transactions only came into force in the early 20th century, with governments around the world instituting income taxation. 50 years ago, almost all transactions were in cash, and the income tax was widely evaded through the use of cash. The government knew very little about what people were buying and how much wealth they had. With the emergence of electronic payment systems, large Trusted Third Parties emerged that collated transactions, and settled them periodically through the respective central bank. These TTPs became gatekeepers and information gatherers, and enabled central authorities to monitor the most intimate interactions of the population - their financial interactions - in incredible detail. Cryptocurrency holds the promise of returning privacy and economic power back to the decentralized distribution that historically existed, but power, once attained, is jealously guarded, and those who have it will likely not want to give it up.

joering2 9y ago
It is also important to say that the trend of making you most likely criminal "because you use cash" will continue. It is already known restaurants owners are getting in trouble for small deposits. Its not even $10,000 or $9,000 you deposit.. if you happen to make daily deposits of even few hundred dollars you are guilty of "structuring" aka smurfing. Another thing is to make sure you can track back your physical hoard of cash. My friend's father is in deep explanations with FBI (and over $50,000 in attorney fees) because when his wife passed away he took all the money they hoard at home under floor and put it in the bank. Some $600,000 of it. IRS didn't like that and proving you had a job all your life and you paid taxes on Over $10,000,000 in income did not stop the case.
- firethief 9y ago
  He might have been better off laundering it.
  - mirimir 9y ago
    Or keeping it as cash. Or buying gold informally. I mean, why put it back into the system?
    - joering2 9y ago
      I should add his wife was an older date and back then people did not trust banks like they used to nowadays. So her husband respected her point of view. Once she passed away he simply didn't want to keep that kind of cash at home.
      - mirimir 9y ago
        I rather got that. And it's a sad story. It's pretty clear that his wife was right about the financial system.
- XorNot 9y ago
  I like the buried lead here - you jump from "inconvenienced restaurant owners" to over half a million dollars under floorboards. That's taking, conservatively, >$10000 a year of losses from cash rate interest alone just sitting there.
Kiro 9y ago
> Peer-to-peer electronic cash has numerous uses beyond tax evasion and money laundering What are the biggest ones? I don't see any point of physical cash personally but I'm in a country where no-one uses it.
- michaelmrose 9y ago
  Transactions solely transacted via physical cash don't require a middleman be paid at every step. Even if you never see a line item for the middle man its effectively part of the bill you pay when you check out anywhere that accepts plastic. The middlemen by setting costs that include a minimum charge per transaction also make transactions below a certain threshold non viable because the transaction fee would be higher than the actual charge.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Cash comes with costs too, often paid to middlemen. Large businesses need vaults, secured trucks, extra time wasted counting and verifying it, etc. Even small business will often need extra insurance, plus the risk of getting their employees harmed on the way to the bank. Ask all those marijuana shops trying to get bank accounts if they don't have any costs passed on to the customer for dealing with cash.
- Jabanga 9y ago
  Physical cash is a primitive technology so its use cases are quite limited given the superiority of alternatives. Electronic cash in the form of cryptocurrency can make money transfer much cheaper than it otherwise would be. It also doesn't require you to jeopardize your privacy every time you form a financial relationship with a new company, as happens every time you use a credit card with a new company. In fact, your privacy is at risk every time you use an identity linked payment system, given the possibility of hacks/leaks.

joering2 9y ago

It is also important to say that the trend of making you most likely criminal "because you use cash" will continue. It is already known restaurants owners are getting in trouble for small deposits. Its not even $10,000 or $9,000 you deposit.. if you happen to make daily deposits of even few hundred dollars you are guilty of "structuring" aka smurfing. Another thing is to make sure you can track back your physical hoard of cash. My friend's father is in deep explanations with FBI (and over $50,000 in attorney fees) because when his wife passed away he took all the money they hoard at home under floor and put it in the bank. Some $600,000 of it. IRS didn't like that and proving you had a job all your life and you paid taxes on Over $10,000,000 in income did not stop the case.

firethief 9y ago
He might have been better off laundering it.
- mirimir 9y ago
  Or keeping it as cash. Or buying gold informally. I mean, why put it back into the system?
  - joering2 9y ago
    I should add his wife was an older date and back then people did not trust banks like they used to nowadays. So her husband respected her point of view. Once she passed away he simply didn't want to keep that kind of cash at home.
    - mirimir 9y ago
      I rather got that. And it's a sad story. It's pretty clear that his wife was right about the financial system.
XorNot 9y ago
I like the buried lead here - you jump from "inconvenienced restaurant owners" to over half a million dollars under floorboards. That's taking, conservatively, >$10000 a year of losses from cash rate interest alone just sitting there.

Kiro 9y ago

> Peer-to-peer electronic cash has numerous uses beyond tax evasion and money laundering What are the biggest ones? I don't see any point of physical cash personally but I'm in a country where no-one uses it.

michaelmrose 9y ago
Transactions solely transacted via physical cash don't require a middleman be paid at every step. Even if you never see a line item for the middle man its effectively part of the bill you pay when you check out anywhere that accepts plastic. The middlemen by setting costs that include a minimum charge per transaction also make transactions below a certain threshold non viable because the transaction fee would be higher than the actual charge.
- icebraining 9y ago
  Cash comes with costs too, often paid to middlemen. Large businesses need vaults, secured trucks, extra time wasted counting and verifying it, etc. Even small business will often need extra insurance, plus the risk of getting their employees harmed on the way to the bank. Ask all those marijuana shops trying to get bank accounts if they don't have any costs passed on to the customer for dealing with cash.
Jabanga 9y ago
Physical cash is a primitive technology so its use cases are quite limited given the superiority of alternatives. Electronic cash in the form of cryptocurrency can make money transfer much cheaper than it otherwise would be. It also doesn't require you to jeopardize your privacy every time you form a financial relationship with a new company, as happens every time you use a credit card with a new company. In fact, your privacy is at risk every time you use an identity linked payment system, given the possibility of hacks/leaks.