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"The headline makes it sound coercive but that actually sounds like an efficient use of time and energy (less big trucks on the road, less miles driven ..." I
by rsync 9y ago
"The headline makes it sound coercive but that actually sounds like an efficient use of time and energy (less big trucks on the road, less miles driven ..."
I thought just the opposite, in terms of efficiency and miles driven, etc.
My understanding is that Fedex and especially UPS trucks are very highly optimized for their work and for fuel efficiency and that their routes are also extremely optimized (for example, UPS truck routes almost never include a left turn).
Meanwhile, J6P at walmart is driving an F350 diesel truck designed to tow 10k pounds of horse trailer[1][2] and is doing a stop and go mail route through his town that cannot possibly be as optimized as a UPS route.
[1] Remember, you can never have too much truck.
[2] The payments for which are almost the sole driver of the job in the first place, but I digress...
- dlubarov 9y ago> My understanding is that Fedex and especially UPS trucks are very highly optimized for their work and for fuel efficiency and that their routes are also extremely optimized (for example, UPS truck routes almost never include a left turn). Apparently UPS trucks get around 10 mpg [1]. Not many consumer vehicles are that inefficient. I'd be surprised if UPS's ORION is better at route optimization than a consumer app like Google Maps. From UPS's own press, it sounds like ORION doesn't account for traffic at all [2]. Even if it did, Google has the most traffic data. I don't know whether Google Maps considers the cost of left turns, but if it did, it would likely factor it in as an extra cost in the optimization problem, rather than a crude "no left turns if possible" rule as ORION seems to use. [1] https://www.quora.com/How-many-miles-per-gallon-do-UPS-trucks-get https://www.quora.com/How-many-miles-per-gallon-do-UPS-truck... [2] https://compass.ups.com/ups-fleet-telematics-system/ https://compass.ups.com/ups-fleet-telematics-system/
- PretzelFisch 9y agonot many consumer cars carry as much weight as a ups truck. I am not sure looking at their mpg tells the whole story.
- revelation 9y agoWeight is dwarfed by aerodynamics. These get shitty MPG because they are shitty technology, made possible only by lax emissions controls and fossil fuel subsidies.
- CamperBob2 9y agoThe no-left-turns rule isn't crude, it's an incredibly valuable (and incredibly obvious) optimization. A mapping service that tells me to turn left in downtown San Francisco at rush hour is literally worse than useless. In many cases, if I follow its directions blindly, not only will I be delayed, I'll delay the traffic around me. It's mind-boggling that Google, Apple, and other consumer-grade routing providers haven't gotten that particular clue yet. Seems clear that none of them have the vaguest concept of cost functions other than input from the local DOT traffic cameras.
- dlubarov 9y agoIt's crude because it's too general. Making three right turns might be the right choice on a busy street in SF, but on a side street in a quiet suburb, making a single left is normally the better choice.
- dboreham 9y agoFor me it would also need to know the date because it is reasonable to make a left turn in winter but not in summer.
- CamperBob2 9y agoAs I pointed out elsewhere, that's what user preference settings are for, but I'm curious: why the seasonal difference? Snow routes?
- CamperBob2 9y agoSure. So add a slider to the configuration page: "Avoid left turns when practical."
- Broken_Hippo 9y agoIt isn't just the wait time, but safety. There is less to look out for when turning right vs turning left, resulting in fewer accidents. This is the same reason some employers require employees to back into a parking space when possible.
- obmelvin 9y agoUPS truck also carries a hell of a lot more than your average employee is going to put in his car and on delivery-dense routes MPG isn't a great signal for efficiency
- dlubarov 9y agoUPS trucks carry lots of packages so that they don't have to reload at the warehouse mid-day. That's not really a concern for Walmart employees, since they wouldn't be making any special trips to the store to load up on packages. True, UPS has the advantage of denser delivery routes. But I'm sure Walmart has done the analysis and determined that they can deliver (some) packages more cost-efficiently than UPS despite this. Same with Amazon, which has been hiring their own couriers in some areas.