3 ms·

Rather than getting rid of 'limerent' feelings, is it possible to channel them into motivation for something else? For instance, Y loves unobtainable woman X, b

by Tycho 16y ago

Rather than getting rid of 'limerent' feelings, is it possible to channel them into motivation for something else? For instance, Y loves unobtainable woman X, but sees there's no reason why X should want Y, therefore sets about a disciplined program of self-improvement and wealth/prospect/prestige-accumulation in the hope that X may one day be attracted. It comes back to the universal problem of how to focus ones mind in order to become more productive.

rue 16y ago
No, it is not.
georgieporgie 16y ago
> therefore sets about a disciplined program of self-improvement > and wealth/prospect/prestige-accumulation in the hope that > X may one day be attracted. That's basically the plot of every mind-poisoning, B.S. movie fed to American (all Western?) youth. So many men, especially young men, believe in this concept of winning over their love. Somehow he'll make her love him (creepy overtones of misogyny). He'll convince her that he's worth loving. If you really like yourself, then that's good enough. If you're not happy with yourself, yeah, improve. But don't ever think you need to improve for someone else[1]. Anyone who actually responds to this is a manipulative jerk who will gradually up the stakes to watch you dance. If X doesn't win over Y, he should consider whether he feels he needs to improve in any areas, pursue any changes, then see how things go when he bumps into Z, having forgotten about Y. [1] - exception: unquestionably defective personality traits (alcoholism, gambling addiction, abusiveness) when you're in a long-term relationship and you both agree to work on it.
- Tycho 16y ago
  Personally I think the more 'poisonous' idea is that 'you are who you are' and that people don't respond to actual values/achievements. Who wants to be loved in spite of what's good about them, of what they try to do. The films you talk about usually show a very superficial process of improvement, typically involving dressing in cooler clothes, lots of silly shenanigans, taking on some new hobbies, and going places to 'hang out.' I'm talking about actual achievements, starting with getting yourself in shape and becoming more entertaining, but extending to meeting your academic potential, finding a good career, developing new skills, committing to side projects, establishing a network of admirable friends, broadening your horizons etc. Things that would serve X well regardless of whether they really do impress Y in the end. With the quality of life possible in the West on a meagre wage, it's tempting to coast through life achieving a fraction of your potential
  - georgieporgie 16y ago
    > the more 'poisonous' idea is that 'you are who you are' Er, are you talking about trashy movies? I don't really know any that tell you not to achieve things. > The films you talk about usually show a very superficial process of improvement It seems to depend on the sex of the character. Females have to lose the glasses and wash their hair with conditioner. Men seem to have to prove themselves, learn stuff, go to ridiculous lengths of sacrifice thereby proving to the female lead that they're worthy, etc. > it's tempting to coast through life achieving a fraction of your potential It sounds to me like it's more tempting to waste your time obsessing on the pursuit of money and success in the eyes of others, rather than doing what makes you happy and brings you closer relationships.
    - Tycho 16y ago
      I wasn't talking about movies - but the prevalent 'love is blind' idea (there are many ways of describing it). It's worse than the shallow 'get the girl' antics of movies IMO. Also I think you imply a false dichotomy between 'the pursuit of money and success' and doing what makes you happy and brings you closer relationships.
      - georgieporgie 16y ago
        > Also I think you imply a false dichotomy between 'the pursuit of money and success' You cut out the critical "in the eyes of others" part. As for a "false dichotomy," spending your life trying to make more money and present the image of success is not a path to happiness. It's quite well documented that the best thing you can do for happiness is to improve your personal relationships. As for money, it doesn't lead to happiness. A lack of money leads to unhappiness, but you only need enough. Anyway, I really think you're missing my points entirely. I'm not saying you shouldn't seek self improvement, and I'm not saying you shouldn't try to achieve things (which may or may not lead to riches). I'm saying do what you want to do for yourself and focus on your relationships. Don't be led around by false ideals implanted in your psyche, and don't try to be "good enough" for others, as it will only make you unhappy.

by Tycho 16y ago

rue 16y ago

No, it is not.

georgieporgie 16y ago

> therefore sets about a disciplined program of self-improvement > and wealth/prospect/prestige-accumulation in the hope that > X may one day be attracted. That's basically the plot of every mind-poisoning, B.S. movie fed to American (all Western?) youth. So many men, especially young men, believe in this concept of winning over their love. Somehow he'll make her love him (creepy overtones of misogyny). He'll convince her that he's worth loving. If you really like yourself, then that's good enough. If you're not happy with yourself, yeah, improve. But don't ever think you need to improve for someone else[1]. Anyone who actually responds to this is a manipulative jerk who will gradually up the stakes to watch you dance. If X doesn't win over Y, he should consider whether he feels he needs to improve in any areas, pursue any changes, then see how things go when he bumps into Z, having forgotten about Y. [1] - exception: unquestionably defective personality traits (alcoholism, gambling addiction, abusiveness) when you're in a long-term relationship and you both agree to work on it.

Tycho 16y ago
Personally I think the more 'poisonous' idea is that 'you are who you are' and that people don't respond to actual values/achievements. Who wants to be loved in spite of what's good about them, of what they try to do. The films you talk about usually show a very superficial process of improvement, typically involving dressing in cooler clothes, lots of silly shenanigans, taking on some new hobbies, and going places to 'hang out.' I'm talking about actual achievements, starting with getting yourself in shape and becoming more entertaining, but extending to meeting your academic potential, finding a good career, developing new skills, committing to side projects, establishing a network of admirable friends, broadening your horizons etc. Things that would serve X well regardless of whether they really do impress Y in the end. With the quality of life possible in the West on a meagre wage, it's tempting to coast through life achieving a fraction of your potential
- georgieporgie 16y ago
  > the more 'poisonous' idea is that 'you are who you are' Er, are you talking about trashy movies? I don't really know any that tell you not to achieve things. > The films you talk about usually show a very superficial process of improvement It seems to depend on the sex of the character. Females have to lose the glasses and wash their hair with conditioner. Men seem to have to prove themselves, learn stuff, go to ridiculous lengths of sacrifice thereby proving to the female lead that they're worthy, etc. > it's tempting to coast through life achieving a fraction of your potential It sounds to me like it's more tempting to waste your time obsessing on the pursuit of money and success in the eyes of others, rather than doing what makes you happy and brings you closer relationships.
  - Tycho 16y ago
    I wasn't talking about movies - but the prevalent 'love is blind' idea (there are many ways of describing it). It's worse than the shallow 'get the girl' antics of movies IMO. Also I think you imply a false dichotomy between 'the pursuit of money and success' and doing what makes you happy and brings you closer relationships.
    - georgieporgie 16y ago
      > Also I think you imply a false dichotomy between 'the pursuit of money and success' You cut out the critical "in the eyes of others" part. As for a "false dichotomy," spending your life trying to make more money and present the image of success is not a path to happiness. It's quite well documented that the best thing you can do for happiness is to improve your personal relationships. As for money, it doesn't lead to happiness. A lack of money leads to unhappiness, but you only need enough. Anyway, I really think you're missing my points entirely. I'm not saying you shouldn't seek self improvement, and I'm not saying you shouldn't try to achieve things (which may or may not lead to riches). I'm saying do what you want to do for yourself and focus on your relationships. Don't be led around by false ideals implanted in your psyche, and don't try to be "good enough" for others, as it will only make you unhappy.