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At some point it seems like the US government needs to step in and somehow mediate these things. I'm sure it's incredibly popular to fine US companies huge sums
by strictnein 9y ago
At some point it seems like the US government needs to step in and somehow mediate these things. I'm sure it's incredibly popular to fine US companies huge sums of money in Europe, but this is starting to get out of hand.
- Oletros 9y agoDo you have statistics to back this claim?
- strictnein 9y agoWhat claim did I make that would require statistical backing?
- Oletros 9y ago> I'm sure it's incredibly popular to fine US companies huge sums of money in Europe, but this is starting to get out of hand. reply This claim
- strictnein 9y ago$9 billion is out of hand. I'm talking about the article.
- Oletros 9y agoFirst, no fine has been done. Second, you're not answering what I have asked. Do you have statistics about the EU fining more US companies than other companies?
- strictnein 9y agoYou're free to google that for yourself. I'm not your research service.
- Oletros 9y ago> You're free to google that for yourself. I'm not your research service So you don't have any source. Thanks, is what I thought. By the way, I have done my research, and you're the one making a claim, you're the one that has to proof it
- funkyy 9y agoLike US is not doing it... Google broke EU laws on purpose - their revenue is huge from European markets, thus they should pay a huge fine. As simple as that.
- strictnein 9y agoNo, it's not "as simple as that". Deciding that a company owes 10% of its worldwide revenue because of something like this is not simple. > Like US is not doing it... They're not.
- rorykoehler 9y agoThe US fined Deutsche Bank $14B & BNP $8B. That's how these things work at the moment.
- strictnein 9y agoGot it. Moving billions of dollars through the US between illicit governments and banned groups is totally the same as tweaking search results and should be fined in equivalent amounts.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- NicoJuicy 9y agoThe US only fined 5 billion to Goldman for the financial worldwide crisis. That's peanuts Ps. http://fortune.com/2016/04/11/goldman-sachs-doj-settlement/ http://fortune.com/2016/04/11/goldman-sachs-doj-settlement/
- rorykoehler 9y agoLooking at this completely coldly and amorally... The governments aren't considered 'illicit' under French law. Perhaps search result manipulation isn't illegal under US law (I don't know). That's irrelevant as the laws of the land where the acts took place were broken. The companies breaking the laws must have known that and taken the risk anyway. They lost. They got fined. The more fines that happen the bigger the incentive for the other party to reciprocate.
- toomuchtodo 9y agoWould you say the same thing if America fined China for its companies taking advantage of US citizens? Or is it selective sovereignty?
- strictnein 9y agoIf they levied a $9 billion fine because of how a Chinese tech firm possibly manipulated search results? First, that wouldn't happen. Second, yes, I would.
- greglindahl 9y agoThe US would be fining the US arm of a Chinese company, and has already done so multiple times. Similarly, China has fined a bunch of Chinese arms of foreign auto companies for monopoly issues around spare parts.
- ma2rten 9y agoI don't think Google is a US company for legal purposes. These violations, if there were any, were done by the European subsidy of Google.
- config_yml 9y agoIt's also incredibly popular in the US to fine European companies, so to me this looks like tit for tat.
- burkaman 9y agoWhat do you mean? If you don't want to be subject to EU judgement, don't do business in the EU. It's the same everywhere, European countries that enter the US have to follow US laws and obey US courts.
- strictnein 9y agoIn the US a company wouldn't be fined $9 billion for "antitrust violations" simply because they may have tweaked their search results to favor their own products. The US fined VW $2.8 billion for falsifying their emissions testing, a far more serious thing. That's less than 2% of global revenue.
- pulse7 9y agoLet's see if GM will be fined as well after latest findings... Destroying many other businesses with "antitrust violations" is also serious for many people loosing their jobs...
- burkaman 9y agoThe fine is not $9 billion, that was a complete guess by Reuters. It's the classic "the max penalty in theory could be this", like reporting that a criminal "could face" life in prison even though in reality they'll get a couple years. I don't understand your comparison to the US. Obviously EU courts do not follow US laws, they follow EU laws. If the laws are unfair, don't open a business there. For example, I think the blasphemy laws in Iran are unfair. The logical conclusion is to not go to Iran or at least not commit blasphemy there, not to go break the law and then complain that "this would never happen in America".
- eropple 9y agoSounds like the US should fine companies more for doing bad things, too, then. That sounds like a pretty straightforward solution to this terrible injustice. (And besides: Google isn't an "American company" any more than any multinational. The EU is fining the European-incorporated arm of the company.)
- 9y ago
- pyrale 9y agoFining companies heavily is something the EU learned from the US. Examples given : BNP $8bn fine a few years ago, WV just recently, etc. What ground would the US have to defend their companies, when every time an euro country has tried to weight on these issues, the answer has been: "The justice system is separated from the executive" ?
- strictnein 9y agoVW's fine is equivalent to less than 2% of global revenue for a far more serious act. BNP (which must be at the top of the search results when people are googling this) violated criminal law while illegally helping Sudan transfer vast sums to illicit and blacklisted groups through the US financial system. Again, that was $9 billion for something far more serious than tweaking search results.
- maxerickson 9y agoWhat do you propose the US government actually do? A multilateral treaty with Europe (you might call it a "Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership") would be one way to establish a process for dealing with such things. Those seem to be unpopular these days, what with them always putting America second and forever subjugating the sovereignty of the US to some poorly negotiated deal. (Well, actually, they have for the last 70 years served American interests and had exit provisions that preserved sovereignty well enough)
- strictnein 9y agoI'm in favor of TTIP, so if that would help create a process to address this, then great.
- jononor 9y agoA process to let US companies get away with abusing their monopoly position? No thanks.
- devy 9y agoConspiracy theories would probably tell you that it's the retaliation of a string of Deutsche Bank's fines by the Fed in the last two years. [1]: https://www.google.com/search?q=deutsche-bank+fine https://www.google.com/search?q=deutsche-bank+fine [2]: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/09/27/like-dodgy-plumbing-deutsche-bank-will-be-expensive-to-fix---but/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/09/27/like-dodgy-pl...
- nothrabannosir 9y agoGoogle makes money in Europe, just like they do in the US. That's what this fine is about. If they don't like it, they can leave. Like they did with China, back in the day. Markets have rules. Don't like the rules? Leave the market. If Google were unreachable in Europe, this fine would not have existed.
- matt4077 9y agoThat's simply not true. See http://ec.europa.eu/competition/cartels/statistics/statistics.pdf http://ec.europa.eu/competition/cartels/statistics/statistic... point 1.6. Of the companies hit with the 10 largest fines, none were from the US: Year Undertaking** Case Amount in €* 2016 Daimler Trucks 1 008 766 000 2016 DAF Trucks 752 679 000 2008 Saint Gobain Carglass 715 000 000 2012 Philips monitor tubes 705 296 000 2012 LG Electronics monitor tubes 687 537 000 2016 Volvo/Renault Trucks 670 448 000 2016 Iveco Trucks 494 606 000 2013 Deutsche Bank (EIRD) 465 861 000 2001 Hoffmann-La Roche Vitamins 462 000 000 2007 Siemens insulated switchgear 396 562 500