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> Just because 70% did not want to pull out does not mean they don't buy the idea that the US should renegotiate to get a better deal. What "better deal"? The

> Just because 70% did not want to pull out does not mean they don't buy the idea that the US should renegotiate to get a better deal. What "better deal"? The Paris climate agreement is entirely voluntary; each country determines its own contribution to reducing global warming and there is no enforcement mechanism. It's aspirational and America gains nothing by pulling out of it.

nickik 9y ago
How is that relevant? That's not the point. My point is that you can not go by some public survey of what people want. Most people have no idea how the Paris Agreement works anyways, so it all depends on how you phrase or sell the question. We know that generally the majority people support some action in flavor of climate. So any question that is phrases in that light will reflect that and have almost nothing to do with Paris specifically. > It's aspirational and America gains nothing by pulling out of it. Who cares about America? How is that relevant to politicians? Some climat change that might happen at some point in the future when they will not be in office anymore. What even is America? The people now living in America? The future people in America that don't vote? The country itself? Non binding international agreements are about signalling and internal politics. If Trump actually believed that 70% of the people would vote against him if he pulled out of Paris he would never have done it, but that is not relevant because they want, so he doesn't care.
- rbehrends 9y ago
  My point here is that the "idea that the US should renegotiate to get a better deal" is inherently nonsensical. You won't ask this question, because it doesn't make any sense.
  - nickik 9y ago
    Why are there any negotiations at all then? If there are any kind of negotiations then you can do it better.
    - rbehrends 9y ago
      A primary goal of the Paris Agreement was signaling; the benefit of it was that they got all countries aboard, except Syria (which was in the middle of a civil war) and Nicaragua (which wanted more and voluntarily is doing more). Trump's decision (assuming it's a rational one and not fed by ignorance) is signaling the reverse: he's telling his supporters that climate change is a myth. And this is why he's getting pushback from other countries.

nickik 9y ago

How is that relevant? That's not the point. My point is that you can not go by some public survey of what people want. Most people have no idea how the Paris Agreement works anyways, so it all depends on how you phrase or sell the question. We know that generally the majority people support some action in flavor of climate. So any question that is phrases in that light will reflect that and have almost nothing to do with Paris specifically. > It's aspirational and America gains nothing by pulling out of it. Who cares about America? How is that relevant to politicians? Some climat change that might happen at some point in the future when they will not be in office anymore. What even is America? The people now living in America? The future people in America that don't vote? The country itself? Non binding international agreements are about signalling and internal politics. If Trump actually believed that 70% of the people would vote against him if he pulled out of Paris he would never have done it, but that is not relevant because they want, so he doesn't care.

rbehrends 9y ago
My point here is that the "idea that the US should renegotiate to get a better deal" is inherently nonsensical. You won't ask this question, because it doesn't make any sense.
- nickik 9y ago
  Why are there any negotiations at all then? If there are any kind of negotiations then you can do it better.
  - rbehrends 9y ago
    A primary goal of the Paris Agreement was signaling; the benefit of it was that they got all countries aboard, except Syria (which was in the middle of a civil war) and Nicaragua (which wanted more and voluntarily is doing more). Trump's decision (assuming it's a rational one and not fed by ignorance) is signaling the reverse: he's telling his supporters that climate change is a myth. And this is why he's getting pushback from other countries.