3 ms·

Oh dear. I couldn't disagree more with the assessment of this story's position on Hacker News. There is a difference between sticking your head in the sand po

Oh dear. I couldn't disagree more with the assessment of this story's position on Hacker News. There is a difference between sticking your head in the sand politically and having a forum where people with differing political opinions can come together and discuss ideas in other areas than politics. You can both be politically active AND participate in a forum that avoids politics. Hacker News policy and avoidance of most political issues is precisely right in this regard. I know I come here to listen to stories dealing with computer technology and expert/practitioner commentary on those stories and business people engaged in the business of technology, particularly start-ups. At those times public policy has direct bearing to these subjects, such as patent law or net neutrality, I do expect to see discussion here. Some here have been saying this has to do with US/Paris Accords. I agree with those topics being purged from this forum. I mean, really! How many readers of Hacker News do you think are on the fence about this subject: probably not zero, but my money says pretty damn close. I would wager that most here not only have already formed opinions on the subject, but strongly held opinions on the subject. If that's the case what possible value is yet another place to shout how right you are and wrong the other guy is at the top of your lungs given the number of other venues for such virtue signaling? I doubt you move the needle in one direction or the other on such terms. So, what can you possibly achieve by being political in all venues and discussion forums? I suppose you can further entrench the move to ideological purity in all endeavors, further degrade any ability to find common ground with people that don't otherwise agree with you, further degrade the political discourse, and achieve a flourishing sense of tribalism in a large, complex society. Is politics important? Sure it is. But so is time and place.

TeMPOraL 9y ago
I guess jacquesm would like to see a political discussion of the same high quality many technical topics are discussed here. But it won't work - you can't shove politics into a quality tech forum and expect quality politics to come out, simply because political discussions inherently invite low quality. They're rarely about facts, mostly about status and opinions. Hence, I agree HN should keep limiting political discussions.
- CM30 9y ago
  That too. There's no necessary connection between 'good at programming' and 'understands politics well'. Or being good at anything else a forum covers and knowing much about the politic world and current situation within. I mean, you wouldn't necessarily expect a site populated by mathematicians interested in discussing what's going on in their field to give you a good political debate. Why would you expect it on Hacker News?
  - state_less 9y ago
    1. The author is saying, the outcome of an election dominate our lives in a negative way more than our positive contributions via technology. In fact, technology can and does in some cases increase the chances that people have a bad day (eg. tyrants crushing dissent via tracking). 2. If we are serious about improving the world, we can't ignore these significant downsides/risks in the world that occur along the political/power dimension. 3. You can do this a positive way. I like how Elon's tech has a (not so) subtle political/power dimension. For example, he does not believe that power should be concentrated in the few hand that figure out AI first, but rather diffused into the many (via OpenAI). Stallman did some impactful political hacking in the (corporate) software world via GPL. 4. I think chatting about this can be helpful if only to remind us of what some of our elders have contributed in the past. Maybe we can alter the power dimensions to hack our way into a more free, humane and well-off future.
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      AD 1. I suppose it depends. From my POV, the outcome of any election that happened during my lifetime in my country had close to zero impact on my life. But maybe I'm just fortunate. Or maybe the talking heads change, but the general direction stays mostly the same way anyway. Honestly not sure about that. AD 2. People here are not ignoring them. The issue is about the difference between knowing about important changes, downsides and risks, vs. discussing every trivia of political sphere. A lot of the things said out loud don't mean anything, but they still invite outrage and flamewars. AD 3. This is my personal outlook. Technology is more powerful than politics because it can unilaterally shift the playing field. If you talk Elon Musk, skip the OpenAI. Think Tesla, and how it basically forced the hand of all the other carmakers. It fought hard to make EVs a viable product, very much against the market. AD 4. See my comment to 2.
CM30 9y ago
"There is a difference between sticking your head in the sand politically and having a forum where people with differing political opinions can come together and discuss ideas in other areas than politics. " Yeah, this is what's important here. Hacker News doesn't need to cover politics for the same reason your average sports, celebrity gossip, fashion or gaming forum doesn't need to cover politics. Because people aren't going there for a political debate, and if the site owners and community decide they want to keep strictly to that, they're entirely fine to.
- judah 9y ago
  > "Hacker News doesn't need to cover politics for the same reason your average sports, celebrity gossip, fashion or gaming forum doesn't need to cover politics" Indeed. And when sports forums (e.g. ESPN) start getting involved in politics, then invariably end up alienating half their audience. This has happened with ESPN, which has contributed to its downfall. I don't want that to happen to HackerNews. I come here for love of the software craft, not for subjective, divisive political stories.

TeMPOraL 9y ago

I guess jacquesm would like to see a political discussion of the same high quality many technical topics are discussed here. But it won't work - you can't shove politics into a quality tech forum and expect quality politics to come out, simply because political discussions inherently invite low quality. They're rarely about facts, mostly about status and opinions. Hence, I agree HN should keep limiting political discussions.

CM30 9y ago
That too. There's no necessary connection between 'good at programming' and 'understands politics well'. Or being good at anything else a forum covers and knowing much about the politic world and current situation within. I mean, you wouldn't necessarily expect a site populated by mathematicians interested in discussing what's going on in their field to give you a good political debate. Why would you expect it on Hacker News?
- state_less 9y ago
  1. The author is saying, the outcome of an election dominate our lives in a negative way more than our positive contributions via technology. In fact, technology can and does in some cases increase the chances that people have a bad day (eg. tyrants crushing dissent via tracking). 2. If we are serious about improving the world, we can't ignore these significant downsides/risks in the world that occur along the political/power dimension. 3. You can do this a positive way. I like how Elon's tech has a (not so) subtle political/power dimension. For example, he does not believe that power should be concentrated in the few hand that figure out AI first, but rather diffused into the many (via OpenAI). Stallman did some impactful political hacking in the (corporate) software world via GPL. 4. I think chatting about this can be helpful if only to remind us of what some of our elders have contributed in the past. Maybe we can alter the power dimensions to hack our way into a more free, humane and well-off future.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    AD 1. I suppose it depends. From my POV, the outcome of any election that happened during my lifetime in my country had close to zero impact on my life. But maybe I'm just fortunate. Or maybe the talking heads change, but the general direction stays mostly the same way anyway. Honestly not sure about that. AD 2. People here are not ignoring them. The issue is about the difference between knowing about important changes, downsides and risks, vs. discussing every trivia of political sphere. A lot of the things said out loud don't mean anything, but they still invite outrage and flamewars. AD 3. This is my personal outlook. Technology is more powerful than politics because it can unilaterally shift the playing field. If you talk Elon Musk, skip the OpenAI. Think Tesla, and how it basically forced the hand of all the other carmakers. It fought hard to make EVs a viable product, very much against the market. AD 4. See my comment to 2.

CM30 9y ago

"There is a difference between sticking your head in the sand politically and having a forum where people with differing political opinions can come together and discuss ideas in other areas than politics. " Yeah, this is what's important here. Hacker News doesn't need to cover politics for the same reason your average sports, celebrity gossip, fashion or gaming forum doesn't need to cover politics. Because people aren't going there for a political debate, and if the site owners and community decide they want to keep strictly to that, they're entirely fine to.

judah 9y ago
> "Hacker News doesn't need to cover politics for the same reason your average sports, celebrity gossip, fashion or gaming forum doesn't need to cover politics" Indeed. And when sports forums (e.g. ESPN) start getting involved in politics, then invariably end up alienating half their audience. This has happened with ESPN, which has contributed to its downfall. I don't want that to happen to HackerNews. I come here for love of the software craft, not for subjective, divisive political stories.