5 ms·

I guess the thing that worries me is how would I know that the increased enforcement budget would actually go towards the ultra-rich? I make a middle-class inc

I guess the thing that worries me is how would I know that the increased enforcement budget would actually go towards the ultra-rich? I make a middle-class income, not enough that it really makes sense to hire an accountant. The tax code is complicated enough that I'm sure I screwed up somewhere doing my taxes --- I just try to muddle my way through it as best I can year after year. I'm sure the IRS could get more money harassing thousands of people like me instead of a single ultra-wealthy individual since we don't have the resources to fight the IRS but the ultra-wealthy do.

tdeck 9y ago
Agreed, I know the feeling well. It's a crazy mess of a system where people with very straightforward sources of income and deductions end up unsure every year whether they've done their tax returns right. This is why other countries just fill them out for you.
- saiya-jin 9y ago
  which countries? I haven't heard about a single one here in europe for example... we all have to fill in returns
croon 9y ago
I really understand your frustration and uncertainty, and to be frank; you don't know for sure that the IRS would chase after rich people. But let me float this: Guess which parties/party wanted the tax code that complicated to begin with? The first step to fixing it would be to not align yourself with the ones who caused the issue. Simpler tax code would make it less worrysome for regular plebs (us) to fill out our taxes, meaning the lower/middle class that pays their taxes would ensure they weren't in danger, and IRS would have an easier time chasing down tax avoiders. The people who complicated the tax codes and also wants to uninsure tens of millions of people to save a few bucks for rich people won't help you.
- ethbro 9y ago
  The problem I have with the tax simplification folks is that they're generally disingenuous about the fact that they're proposing moving from a progressive to a much flatter tax code. Or at least ignorant about the differences. I'm sure a lot of the language and ideas they're parroting are coming from conservative talk radio, hence the blind spots. But it really soured me on the US tax simplification debate.
  - croon 9y ago
    > The problem I have with the tax simplification folks is that they're generally disingenuous about the fact that they're proposing moving from a progressive to a much flatter tax code. Or at least ignorant about the differences. Whole heartedly agree. Simplification and flatter tax code should be separate discussions, with separate conclusions.
    - logfromblammo 9y ago
      Here's a simple, progressive income tax: 1. IRS determines the median for personal income (total household income divided by household size), and publishes it no later than January 1. 2. Your taxable income is your household income minus the published median from #1 times the number of people in your household. If this is less than or equal to zero, pay no tax. 3. Those with positive taxable income pay x% of that amount as tax, with x set according to the requirements of the previous year's budget, but not to exceed a statutory limit of y%. If you take the median income as a proxy for spending, this tax thus approximates a flat tax on the annual increase in household wealth.
      - brewdad 9y ago
        The thing is, you can greatly simplify the tax code and still have progressive tax brackets. Looking up the total amount due in the back of the tax booklet (or more realistically having software calculate the total due) is the easy part of doing one's taxes. Cut out the various deductions and credits and additions to income etc. to make things simple. Then calculating tax due becomes a simple table lookup or addition of amounts from multiple tables. 3rd grade math. We don't need to set a single universal x% tax rate to make things easy.

tdeck 9y ago

Agreed, I know the feeling well. It's a crazy mess of a system where people with very straightforward sources of income and deductions end up unsure every year whether they've done their tax returns right. This is why other countries just fill them out for you.

saiya-jin 9y ago
which countries? I haven't heard about a single one here in europe for example... we all have to fill in returns

croon 9y ago

I really understand your frustration and uncertainty, and to be frank; you don't know for sure that the IRS would chase after rich people. But let me float this: Guess which parties/party wanted the tax code that complicated to begin with? The first step to fixing it would be to not align yourself with the ones who caused the issue. Simpler tax code would make it less worrysome for regular plebs (us) to fill out our taxes, meaning the lower/middle class that pays their taxes would ensure they weren't in danger, and IRS would have an easier time chasing down tax avoiders. The people who complicated the tax codes and also wants to uninsure tens of millions of people to save a few bucks for rich people won't help you.

ethbro 9y ago
The problem I have with the tax simplification folks is that they're generally disingenuous about the fact that they're proposing moving from a progressive to a much flatter tax code. Or at least ignorant about the differences. I'm sure a lot of the language and ideas they're parroting are coming from conservative talk radio, hence the blind spots. But it really soured me on the US tax simplification debate.
- croon 9y ago
  > The problem I have with the tax simplification folks is that they're generally disingenuous about the fact that they're proposing moving from a progressive to a much flatter tax code. Or at least ignorant about the differences. Whole heartedly agree. Simplification and flatter tax code should be separate discussions, with separate conclusions.
  - logfromblammo 9y ago
    Here's a simple, progressive income tax: 1. IRS determines the median for personal income (total household income divided by household size), and publishes it no later than January 1. 2. Your taxable income is your household income minus the published median from #1 times the number of people in your household. If this is less than or equal to zero, pay no tax. 3. Those with positive taxable income pay x% of that amount as tax, with x set according to the requirements of the previous year's budget, but not to exceed a statutory limit of y%. If you take the median income as a proxy for spending, this tax thus approximates a flat tax on the annual increase in household wealth.
    - brewdad 9y ago
      The thing is, you can greatly simplify the tax code and still have progressive tax brackets. Looking up the total amount due in the back of the tax booklet (or more realistically having software calculate the total due) is the easy part of doing one's taxes. Cut out the various deductions and credits and additions to income etc. to make things simple. Then calculating tax due becomes a simple table lookup or addition of amounts from multiple tables. 3rd grade math. We don't need to set a single universal x% tax rate to make things easy.